Tonight's update begins with a video which highlights Talbot telling Sam that he doesn't know who he's dealing with.
Next, we see Sam in a conversation with Ockham.
- He tells him a story about finding the coordinates on the slip of paper in Talbot's cabin, mentions that they are within range of the coordinates, and it's the only chance they will get for the next three weeks.
- Ockham and Sam agree on a deal and he and Sam come up with a plan to reprogram the coordinates without Talbot finding out. The first part of the plan is that Sam needs to navigate the ship through the reef.
Navigate the Reef:
Sam must get the Christiane 1 to the coordinates without hitting the reef.
- Hint: You will have to steer away from the coordinates to get through the reef safely. Beware of dead ends.
- It seems the best course is to bear to the left while also drifting up. You really need to keep track of where you've been.
At the end of successful navigation we get another video:
- Talbot knows they changed course, but that the coordinates Sam has are insignificant.
- Everyday Magnus Hanso recorded his ship's position in a journal. His employers have that journal and the search grid is based on it.
- He questions what makes Sam think his coordinates are the ones he needs. Sam says he got them from the Maxwell Group, but Talbot tells Sam that his employers never make mention of him.
- Sam comes clean about how he ended up there (e-mails, coordinates, etc.).
- Talbot wants the original coordinates reset...but just as they go to turn the ship around the navigation starts beeping, and Ockham says, "Mr. Talbot, I think we've found Black Rock."
We are left with lots to think about. 1. Who are Talbot's employers, and how did they get Magnus Hanso's journal? 2. If Maxwell sent Sam to the Sunda Trench and Talbot knows nothing of it then who works for whom? 3. And of course, if they have found the Black Rock...what now? Where does that leave Sam?
173 comments:
First!?
Carol - Reef SCREAMS Island to me! But is it THE island?
Black Rock and Mangnus Hanso scream confusion to me.
*See main page questions*, but how the heck did Talbot's people get Magnus Hanso's journal?
Anyway, I've given up on the game. I just don't have the brain cells to get the idea! First time I've cheated and watched the second video.
Okay, so we can understand why Sam coming into some money via the Box Company burning down was important...so he can pay Ockham. Interesting that Talbot paid for 3 months, no matter what. Now the question of how he got Magnus' journal: Wouldn't that journal have been on the Black Rock? Doesn't that mean that Talbot's employers had to have been on the island already? Unless, Alvar had it in the family heirloom chest! LOL To me this indicates that Talbot/Maxwell/Widmore/Hanso/Paik are all working together.
I have a funny feeling the blip on the radar is not the Black Rock, but the freckage.
Jess: I thought the same thing. What is a reef doing in the middle of the Sunda Trench?
It is possible that Talbot, or his people, stole Magnus Hanso's journal from someone who has been to the island.
Which would mean Talbot might know there is the island out there somewhere and that is what he is searching for.
Also, the reef would mean shallow water, which could mean freckage and machine divers, not very deep after all.
There's a reef near or around the island...Rousseaux mentioned that her ship ran aground on the reef...I think...
xxoo
I am sure there is an island there. I am just not sure it is THE island.
Well, is there really a journal? Could this be part of the ruse to "accidently" find the freckage? Have we actually seen the journal...not yet. Is Talbot just telling Sam a story?
I was also wondering how they got Hanso's journal but didn't want to say it in the other thread. And if this really is his journal, why is he writing down locations along the Sunda Trench when they were seent o go east of PNG??? My only thought is maybe this is a journal from a prior trip (am I remembering correctly from the last game that there was no certainty that Hanso was on it when it made what turned out to be its last trip?) and they are working off it in the hopes it will help.
Although, thinking a little more, it almost seems as though Talbot knows what is at those coordinates. Just in the way he told Sam to stay away from them.
Hmmm, maybe Talbot knows the island is there. Maybe he is searching for something besides the Black Rock or the Island.
Okay gang that post took WAY too long to put together (I threw my computer on the floor three times and stomped around a little) bur it gives us oodles to speculate about in the next day.
I'm camping with the kids that think this is not the Black Rock, but the freckage, and I wonder how Talbot is going to take this news?
Goodnight!
Looking at my progress, it looks like we are going to have a busy few days. There are 2 activities this time, plus the other stuff, all ending on Thursday.
Missed the new post somehow. I finally did it. After 15 tries and turning it over to my ten year old, who got close but no cigar. I finally got to the dadgum dot! Now, I supposed it'll be Wednesday before we know what it is. . . .but Wednesday I'll be watching the enhanced season finale so maybe I won't know until hmmm - Friday?
You know what's funny? I was watching the video thinking - oh boy! We've found the Black Rock! Only, of course we haven't because the BR is sitting in the midst of the jungle. I get so caught up sometimes, thinking just falls by the wayside.
And the blip is... Michael and Walt on their boat?
oy - that was a tough activity for me! I think it took me about 50 times! can't wait to see how they wrap all this up by Thursday.
well I was piecing together screen caps to put together a map of sorts but Dark has a very clear map up already
I very highly doubt we have found the Black Rock. I very highly doubt we have found anything to do with the island. I too think we have found the freckage and I too think Talbot knows it. In which case... Sam knew we wouldn't be back near these coordinates for another 3 weeks... was the freckage discovery timed that far in advance? As in it is already there, and what on earth do they need another 3 weeks for???
Wow! That one was tough! I lost count how many times it took to get past that last little neck!
I agree that the dot is probably the freckage.
I missed the discussion of the mobisode in the previous post. And now I forgot what I wanted to say about it! DOH!
Dang this activity makes the mastermind one look easy! Still trying to get it. I want to give up but I'm too stubborn. This is so good. I can hardly wait until Thursday.
I remembered what it was I wanted to say about the mobisode. (besides WOW! and OMG!) Maybe the work that Jack has to do is operate on Ben. Juliet knew about the tumor before the plane crashed, so the island must have known too. Maybe the island brought him there? You know, the "magic wish box"?
Yay!!! I finally did it, 3 hours and 30 minutes after everyone else. *lol*
Ok, now to read the posts.
Right, I'm with the freckage gang. It can't be the Black Rock, that being on the Island and all. I just know it's not The Island, so this being Find 815 and all, Namomi's freckage it is. :)
Oh and what a surprise that Talbot has Magnus Hanso's journal! I guess this means that old Magnus did not go down with his ship after all.
The last Mobisode was very interesting as we seem to have dog's seeing dead people now. I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
That would be 'Naomi's' freckage.
Oh well, I give up. I get to that last little gooseneck turn and mess up. Perhaps I'll try again tomorrow.
Ok to continue the thought...now how did the Maxwell Group get Magnus' journal? Could it have been on the Black Rock, plucked off and taken off the island by a Dharma employee back in the day, or perhaps via Richard or Ethan? Is Talbot lying? And Carol makes a good point- why was Magnus writing down all the coordinates in the Sunda Trench when they were supposed to be sailing the other way past PNG with a bunch of slaves? Was Magnus looking for the island way back then? How would he have known about it? That would mean the island is near the Trench, but is that right? And if the freckage is planted in the Trench, then how is Oceanic going to explain the flight being so far off course? Has this been discussed? I've missed a lot of comments here and there.
OMG, I finally did it!!! It must have taken me 30 tries, but YAY....
Lots going on today. LOVED the mobisode!!!!! I always thought Christian was really alive. I don't think it's a manifestation of smokey. Christian and Vincent got to know eachother better in the hold of the plane:)
Back to 815, I really don't know what's going on there. Maybe what they've found is Naomi's downed "helicopter".
What a week this will be!
scoutpost, don't give up! I never thought I'd get around that little "gooseneck" either..
OMG, too! I finally did it! I just needed to step away for a while and I finally "saw the light" and figured out what I was supposed to do. Part of that was pretty tricky, almost making a sharp u-turn and slipping through that break! But now I can go to sleep and not be pissed off at myself! LOL Don't give up anyone!
Congrats, maven! LOL, I don't think I could have slept without finishing it:)
Thanks, Codysmom! Now I've got my little green box and I'm happy! :)
Green boxes make me happy, too.. I'm determined they'll all be green!!!!!
Well, I've had it for the day...so much happening today! The excitement is building...gotta get my sleep! Night!
G'nite, maven.. at least I'll be around tomorrow for any new excitement!
Someone at DarkUfo's blog somehow unscrabled the "reef", and reversed the coloring and it turned out to be Sonya's face... creepy.
Anyone else starting to get the feelin NO answers are on their way??? Im getting a total Rachel Blake deja vu..... but with much less of a climax. Oh well.... LOST IS BACK IN THREE DAYS!
alison, are you serious? When I saw the completed map on Dark I thought it looked rather Picasso-ish but wow!
Picaso-ish, but definately a female face, and matches a picture perfectly . I was shocked too.
As for the whole Mangus Hanso journal thingy, If the Black Rock crashed, and he's supposedly buried on the Island, how the hell would his journal get off the island? teleportation? Or did the Others have an in at Maxwell group and Hanso?
magnus hanso only had to die on the island. he may have left and returned to it many times before then. dunno, just a thought.
Llama, I remember a theory from TLE that had Hanso going to the island more than once. I think something about him accidentally finding it one time and that final Black Rock voyage being his attempt to return (though I don't know that he meant it to be so permenant). But if that was the case, if the island is so hard to find, how did he manage it repeatedly (mind you I guess they had less instrumentation for the islands' forces to wreak havoc on)? Having re-read what Lostpedia say about it, there's nothing concrete that it may have sailed that way before.
ok, I skimmed the Lostpedia entry too much. It says that Africa to Indonesia/PNG was a regular route for the Black Rock, so there is a chance that the journal is from a prior journey but that still doesn't shed any light on whether Hanso had come across the island before or not
Im gonna stop trying to figure anything out. Save me lots of time. Just wait for it all to answer itself in good time. If i does, lol. At least this ARG is much easier than the last one-- how we were supposed to figure out some of those things, Ill never know.
Hmmm - either the freckage or the true wreckage in the alternate timeline from which Naomi hails - depending on your favorite theory.
scoutpost said...how did the Maxwell Group get Magnus' journal? Could it have been on the Black Rock, plucked off and taken off the island by a Dharma employee back in the day, or perhaps via Richard or Ethan? Is Talbot lying?
Well, some said this last night (I think it was Jess and alisomiac too) that it looks like this could be proof, if the diary did come from the island, that Dharma or the others are for sure connected with Widmore/Maxwell, and that someone from their camp has been on and off that island.
alisomniac said...somehow unscrambled the "reef", and reversed the coloring and it turned out to be Sonya's face... creepy.
I thought I saw a face last night too, before the "tweaks" but you know I think this also tells us that the reef here is going to be no real consequence. Look at where out starting point on that map was...how the heck does the ship get there without hitting anything, then have to navigate without hitting anything? And now with it being possibly Sonya's face, it seems just a piece of the game, and not something to worry about in geographical relation...IMO anyway.
carol dunstan said...ok, I skimmed the Lostpedia entry too much. It says that Africa to Indonesia/PNG was a regular route for the Black Rock, so there is a chance that the journal is from a prior journey,
Good one! If he went back and forth and charted/marked different coordinates each time, this might be a clue to us that Talbot's coordinates are leading to something other than we think. Maybe Talbot doesn't even know what the Black Rock is, or is being led to believe it's there when his PTB know it's not. He needs a search grids because he doesn't have exact coordinates, he thinks he is going to find this sunken Black Rock, but really, it's just a big set-up for the freckage discovery (like we thought).
Ange, I too am of the belief that the whole reef/navigation thing was really just to give us an activity to do (and cool one, really, even though it was frustrating... I loved having something harder, though I'm now wondering how impossibly hard will the last activity be???). And if you look at the video just before it cuts to the activity you will see the radar thing that Sam is looking at and there is no dead end where the ship is. Still, there was a reef in the video so it was part of Sam's story and a reef in a deep trench doesn't make sense to me (but then I also haven't studied bathymetry charts of the area to know if perhaps the edge of the trench is there and there does happen to be a section more shallow than you would expect... I seriously doubt they worried about being that accurate)
The answers to the Magnus diary acquisition and who obtained it (and therefore who Talbot might work for!), are contained in one of DarkUFO's spoilery hangman games. The first one, I think, from a week or so ago. It's very exciting, in my opinion. And I'm not saying nuttin.! :o)
Hey Gang
I'm still trying to get through that silly reef. I'm getting hung up on that last goose neck everyone was talking about last night. Last night I was getting hung up there at the top by that little square section but have finally figured out how to navigate that part. I'm going to try another 2000 times and maybe I'll get there. lol What a time for my son to get sick. I usually have him help me with these things. Going to have to do this one on my own. Or maybe now I know which way to go up there at the top my daughter might be able to get me through when she gets home for school. lol Oh back to the reef. :)
Don't give up, sayid'sgirl! It took me forever. I'm dreading the next activity! LOL
Sonya's face in the reef map is probably just a cool easter egg thingy. I still can't fathom (pun intended) why there's a reef in the middle of the Sunda Trench.
As I said last night, is there a possibility that Magnus' journal doesn't even exist. That it's just part of the coverup story that they're looking for the Black Rock and "accidently" find the freckage.
I can't remember where DarkUFO got that hangman spoiler info concerning the dairy. But everything is up for guesses until TPTB give us the truth, the whole truth, etc!
sayid'sgirl: you might have better luck if you take the first turn wide like a truck. by that i mean veer wide to the right before the left turn then start your left turn a little early and all out so you go a little further than you need to be parallel with the final wall, then turn hard right. that's what worked for me in the end.
yep, don't give up sayid'sgirl! I tried my hand on it over lunch and crashed into that last narrow bit oodles (sic!) of times... but then I finally got through.
I'm with you Maven, does the journal indeed exist? There were a hell of a lot of dots on that search grid for one last journey !?! Either the captain was stociously drunk or we was looking for something (unlikely in a 4 mile deep trench without modern equipment). If I was trying to get from Papua NG to Africa, and was a seasoned captain, I'd go in a straight line, not zig-zag LOL.
Methinks it's all a con. I bet they found 815.
Don't forget the possiblity of storms during the Black Rock trip, Oodles. The ship could have gotten knocked around from something like that. Just looking at all possible explanations. Unless of course, Magnus was also looking for something, and marking down the places where he already looked.
sayid'sgirl, don't give up! Take thewonderllama's advice... that's how I finally got it. I had to laugh that you have your son do the hard parts like this. Now that my "kids" are grown and out on their own, many is the time I wish my son was here to get me out of a tough spot in a video game:)
oodles, I agree... there are a "hell of a lot of dots on that search grid for one last journey". I can't make sense of that, either.
capcom: good point...what if he was trying to get back to the island when he made that journal? say he had found it by accident initially, and then was trying to get back? i imagine if i was trying to get back to a hidden island, i'd keep a log of where i'd looked already.
So e-mail, website, and/or messages are up for tonight? I wonder how it will further the story?
Next up hear Ockham say, "Sorry, Mr. Talbot. It's not a sunken ship. It looks like a plane freckage."
How come Talbot didn't acknowledge that Sam didn't find the coordinates in Talbot's cabin but in an e-mail? Why would he be willing to overlook the incident? Also the coordinates have to be from previous journeys, not Magnus Hanso's last one. That would have "gone down" with the ship.
Talbot has a voice like somebody on the old Twilight Zone.
Twinkle: I bet our next activity is to manuever an underwater camera and "we" find the freckage!
thewonderllama
Thanks I'll try that.
codysmom
Everytime I don something stupid on the computer like accidently closing the tools on paint. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get them back. I hated to ask him cause I knew it would be something simple,sure enough two clicks and they were back and he walks away grinning.
It does seem like Magnus was searching for something doesn't it.
LOL, sayid'sgirl...
I suppose looking for something might account for all the coordinates plotted. But, even though Indonesia to Africa was a common course for the Black Rock back then, they said it was seen travelling east from Papua New Guinea on it's final voyage.
maven said...
Twinkle: I bet our next activity is to manuever an underwater camera and "we" find the freckage!
I'm thinking you're right, maven!
Twinkle said...
How come Talbot didn't acknowledge that Sam didn't find the coordinates in Talbot's cabin but in an e-mail? Why would he be willing to overlook the incident?
I thought that was weird, too. Maybe Talbot is in charge of leading Sam on this wild goose chase?
Right, codysmom. Talbot is the frontman to make sure Sam stays on board and accidentally finds the freckage. Officially, Oceanic Air has stopped looking. And whomever is behind the goings on with the island, wants to put Flight 815 to rest for the friends and family of the passengers so they'll shut up.
maven
That is an excellent thought. It probably will be a camera.
capcom
I know that whole east versus west is the twist isn't it?
I just re-watched the video you get after you solve last night's FRUSTRATING challenge. (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x47b1l_chapter-5-activity-success_shortfilms).
It seems Talbot is disappointed when the bleeps start, indicating they've found something. Would he be upset that they found it at all, or that they found it too early?
twinkle said....
Talbot has a voice like somebody on the old Twilight Zone.
You're spot-on with that one!
Almost made it didn't turn quite wide enough. Back to try again. :)
Right Sayidsgirl! And I wonder if the whole diary grid thing stems from the problem Magnus had with telling direction in that area! He kept trying to go a certain way, and kept getting pulled into another way. Or his compass kept telling him he was going one way, and the sun told him differently. J/K......I think. :-)
I like everyones' idea about us finding the freckage. I can see it now, the last step is that it appears underwater (with dead people or dummies in it, of course), and then the blackout/boom, and the LOST logo appears. Then, we run from the computer to the TV to watch the show. :o)
Good thought Capcom! Hadn't thought of that. Perhaps the weird goings on in that area made him go zig-zag (and made us crash into the rocks too LOL!)
Still, if the ship sank there, the journal would have been destroyed, unless it stemmed from an earlier journey. And of course, the ship sailed east out of ... [tearing hair out]
I suppose we could give Magnus a break with his sailing skills if we knew if all those plotted coordinates didn't happen in one venture.
Talbot says they are coordinates Hanso kept in his diary that he wrote down every day, so I guess it could be all the plotted places from a lot of different trips.
It still doesn't tell us why Talbot is looking for the Black Rock in that area at all, seeing as it's common knowledge (there's even a website) that says Magnus's ship was last seen leaving New Guinea in an easterly direction. The only explaination is that Talbot isn't looking for the Black Rock, right? So, back to the freckage idea; yeah, that works the best.
Ditto, tearing hair out Oodles! :-D
Good thought that the coordinate recording didn't happen in all one trip Codysmom!
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is still confused about the Bali vs. Fiji area problem. Unless there's that connecting wormhole waiting there to transport Sam and Co. to the island area, I'm still shaking my head over that.
I don't think THE island is in the area of the Sunda Trench.
I think I'm going to watch TTLG on my S3 DVD's now. Was it Memphish who said it's a good idea to watch the commentary on that one (or was it another one?)
hey gang,
I posted a bit on TLC last season – mostly just read – but now that I'm coming out of LOST hibernation, I thought I'd ask a question. Sorry if it's already been discussed somewhere...
Do any of you think they're setting up Sam to become a new character on LOST? I think the chances are very remote, but something about the way this story has gone really makes me wonder. The producers tried to introduce Nikki and Paulo, and that was an incredible flop. The producers themselves admitted that. Could this be a different approach to introducing a new character? By building him up and giving him some background and viewer recognition (at least among the die-hards) before throwing him into the fire?
Just curious for your thoughts.
Supposedly the island nor the black rock should be at those coordinates. So it seems it's going to be the freckage. But why whould Talbot seem displeased they had found it? What difference would it make when they find it.
tim
That's not a bad idea. I would like Sam as a new character.
Oh I know I'm the last one. Don't know how many actual hours I spent on it. I stopped and started. But WOO! HOO! I made it through the reef.
Can someone define "freckage" for me?
Tim, freckage=fake+wreckage of Flight 815 :D
Hi Tim,
I think it's quite possible. He'd make an interesting enough character and he is... um ... rather cute too. But if he finds the airplane wreck, will he accept that his girlfriend is dead or will he smell the red herring and continue searching for the truth and end up on the island eventually.
... which makes me think of another question ...: if Jack and Kate and ???? make it off the island, how will Oceanic explain the finding of the airplane in the Sunda trench with all the bodies in it?
God, this show is mind-boggling!
Thanks for the answer... I figured it was something along those lines.
If they find "freckage," it would really make me wonder when this is happening.
Naomi said they found the wreckage and bodies... Oceanic has already called the search off... so maybe the whole purpose of this side stories is to reconcile those two facts by the introduction of 'freckage.'
[i]But why whould Talbot seem displeased they had found it? What difference would it make when they find it.[/i]
Because if the person who was feeding Sam the coordinates already knew there was something important to be found at those coordinates (and something of concern to Sam at that), the whole "accidental" finding of the airplane wreckage would smell fishy right away. It would not seem so accidental any more.
YAY, sayid'sgirl!!!!!!!!!! Congrats! You're too young to be in the "old broad's" club, so your fingers probably won't ache like mine did this morning (interestingly, it's my FU finger on the right hand giving me the most trouble... ha ha)
tim, I like the idea of Sam being on the show. I even remarked on the star tatoo on his left arm maybe pointing to this. I could see him being in a clip where "future Jack" is checking out everything that went down when Flight 815 was LOST. I wouldn't mind if was part of the show... he's a likeable character.
Good thinking, oodles! So, who do you suppose is giving Sam the clues?
the whole "accidental" finding of the airplane wreckage would smell fishy right away. It would not seem so accidental any more.
Ooh, that's good.
Codysmom, You might be right – if Sam is to be on the show in some manner, it wouldn't necessarily have to mean he's on the island. I can see him being a bit character down the road, somehow. It would make sense to introduce him in this manner.
Hmmm, a staged [accidental] finding, I like that idea.
The Bali vs. Fiji area problem has to be considered tho, since the Black Rock ended up on the island (Fiji area we assume). Unless I'm missing something, or that whole Black Rock search in that area is a ruse. Which brings us to Oodles' "accidental" finding. Double-hmmmm. Sorry if I'm dense.
It would be so cool if Sam and Jack meet up somehow and Sam goes with him to get back to the island.
Hey all!
Sayidsgirl- you're not the last one. I haven't conquered the reef yet either, but I won't be able to try again until later. Just popping in to say hi and to catch up on comments since last night.
Catch ya'll later.
codysmom
Thanks
You're so wrong :) it was my comment of being an old broad that got the club started. Last night the back of my hand was cramping up. That's why I put it off till today.
oodles
Ok I get it. It has nothing to do with tming.
Since Sam got the coodinates from the Maxwell Group supposedly Talbot's boss, and they find the freckage instead of black rock. That would probably mean the Maxwell Group and in Sam's mind Talbot too knew what was really there.
THis little game is horrible.
Well, we knew at the beginning of Find815.com that either:
- Naomi was lying (in some way) about the bodies and wreckage being found.
OR
- Since Oceanic called off the search, that someone else had to find the wreckage/freckage (thus Naomi believes it to be true).
Yes indeed, I really like that "accidental" finding. They called off the search, and some fake company (fompany?) under the guise of a nebulous "syndicate" finds it while on a salvage mission of another kind, in an unexpected place. How convenient! Oh yeah. :-)
capcom
Yeah I like it too. And the icing on the cake is having Sam on board.
Yeahhhhhhhhhh. XO :o)
So, who do you suppose is giving Sam the clues?
It would have to be someone with very "high-level clearance" within Maxwell/Widmore/Paik.
Perhaps Mr. Paik, as he wants to know the real fate of his daughter?
And lest we think that it would be an awful lot of expense to go to to buy and sink an airliner (and fill it with dummies), remember that ABC/TPTB bought a junked one from the boneyard to chop up and place on the beach to film the show. BTW, I found an aviation website that shows the plane used, but I forgot where I bookmarked it. Oh well, I hate it when that happens.
It would have to be someone with very "high-level clearance" within Maxwell/Widmore/Paik.
Perhaps Mr. Paik, as he wants to know the real fate of his daughter?
The hard part is the "love you madly" message. It's someone with technical – coordinates, encoding, etc. – knowledge, and with personal knowledge of Sam and Sonya.
That would be the $64,000 question indeed, Oodles! I hope that we find out before the game is over.
So after hours and hours (with breaks and a little, though frustrated sleep) I finally got through that maze. I guess I won't apply for that Mississippi River pilot's license after all.
A couple of items. From the first video, Ockham says Talbot paid for 90 days and Sam says something about making triple your money. Do you think that was a payment offer by Sam or he meant since we've only been out 30 days you'll make 90 days money in only 30?
Why the heck were there shallow reefs in the Sunda Trench in the first place? Also if the plane is 4 miles deep what kind of signal is the ship sending into the water to sound off of whatever it is Black Rock or Freckage or Other? Finally, why does Talbot think the readings from Hanso are accurate with all the electromagnetic weirdness in the area? Wouldn't that affect those readings?
Maybe another question to ask is...did Oceanic abort the search prematurely, and if so, why? Was there some reason why they didn't want the real plane to actually be thought lost for good? And to pretend that the plane (any plane) was "found" physically so that the book could officially be closed on it? Maybe it stems back to halting any searches in the actual (Fiji) island area. Which leads one to more-so believe the Ben's-behind-Talbot theory. Uh-oh, brain is smoking now!
All great Qs Memphish! :-)
Tim, good point ("love you madly") (no, not me you, the message LOL)
Also if the plane is 4 miles deep what kind of signal is the ship sending into the water to sound off of whatever it is Black Rock or Freckage or Other?
It's the plane's Black Box sending a signal up?
Sayid'sgirl said...
codysmom
Thanks
You're so wrong :) it was my comment of being an old broad that got the club started.
OOps, I must be thinking of scoutpost, LOL
memphish said....
.. "Sam says something about making triple your money." I think Sam is just so desperate to find Sonya that he's willing to give Ockham any amount just to keep searching (and he knows he just came into some money with the box company)
OT, memphish... was it TTLG that you said was so enlightening with the commentary? S3 DVD's, I mean..
why does Talbot think the readings from Hanso are accurate with all the electromagnetic weirdness in the area? Wouldn't that affect those readings?
Magnus Hanso was probably better at celestial navigation than we are...
Seriously, he may well have been in a position to determine his LAT/LONG by the sun, moon and stars as the concept had been developed by 1837, more than 40 years prior to the disappearance of the ship.
codysmom-not to butt in (?), but memphish pointed out The Man Behind the Curtain with commentary from the S3 DVD's...very interesting commentary about the ring of "ash" around Jacob's cabin-I had originally thought that the ash was actually embedded with metal particles and was directed by electromagnetism, but not so...:(. Anyway, at least I know now!!
xxoo
I forgot who was the beginning of the Old Broads..but I do know I am the prez (being the elder) with a presidntail dunce cap on! That maze..I can't even get out of the dry docks to start it! The Myst game series is easier than that! LOL
that is presidental...whoever typed that other word is a "dunce"
seems a lot of people are posting similar thoughts to my own
- I don't think it makes sense that if Talbot has a journal of Hanso's, and it was said to be from his final voyage then it wasn't publicly known (other wise that would mean the Rock had already been found and that would raise all sorts of questions which DHARMA/Hanso probably don't want raised. Something else that has occured to me... surely if there was any hint of the Hanso company's involvement it would have come up in the last game (in theory... maybe that is a finer detail they hadn't thought of at the time)). Another idea is it had supposedly washed up somewhere, but I also think that is unlikely... as oodles pointed out it should have been destroyed. The more I think about it the more I think any journal of Hanso's has to be from prior journey/s. Which still doesn't explain his mentioning all these locations along the Trench (unless it wasn't so much to do with their task but things that happened along the way... coordinates for strange occurances like green fog maybe?).
-if the journal was from his final journey and that was publicly known then there should be no question that he was on the Rock when it was lost. We, the LOST viewers, only assume he was because of the blast door... to the public within the show, that has no knowledge of that, there is no record of the fate of Magnus... it is merely suggested (on Lostpedia) that it's believed he still enjoyed a hands on role on the ships and that he may have been on this last journey.
- if they find the freckage at these coordinates then not only should Sam and the world question why it's in the Sunda Trench instead of the Pacific, but Sam should also question why Talbot told him to stay away from it and how someone else (the person sending him the emails) knew it was there. OK, granted Sam doesn't seem the sharpest crayon in the box (as much as it pains me to say that... I do really like Sam!) considering he didn't really question Talbot having a briefcase with initials that didn't match his own etc etc, but something like that really should jump out at you.
another little thought... the Black Rock was last seen heading east from PNG (anyone feeling like a broken record yet???). What if they soon after went west but noone was looking... however, like capcom, I have had the notion of some wormhole like connection linking the Trench to the Island... it's the only way I can think of to explain a few things but it's not one I think will be the case.
maven, I like the idea that the next activity is to steer the camera or some other submersible to the wreckage
I wouldn't mind Sam becoming a character in the show but I don't think it will happen in the first 8 episodes (shooting schedules don't match).
I have more thoughts but this post is long enough as it is and breakfast needs to be made
Thanks, ellen! Yes, that must have been what I was thinking about. I'll have to check that out. I've been in and out of this ARG and not following as closely with posts, etc.... not to mention the "old broad" memory failing me... ha ha
All hail ular97! Love the hat:)
Hi, Carol...
You must be on the other side of the world if you're making breakfast now (thru the wormhole?) I would suppose we can take anything Talbot has to say with an extremely small grain of salt (as with Ben). Can we really believe anything he says?
And, I don't think Sam would so much become a character on the show right away, but at least maybe show up on a web-quest of Jack or Kate when they first get back to the states, trying to figure out what happened while they were gone.
Codysmom, It was The Man Behind The Curtain. Excellent commentary much like an Official LOST Podcast, plus Michael Emerson who is always interesting.
I don't think they've found a black box. I think the ship is sounding the ocean floor or something since Black Rock wouldn't have a black box and that's what Ockham thinks they've found. Having watched some of those "Find the Titanic" documentaries though, they map out the ocean floor and look for discrepancies to hone in on, so I'm a little skeptical about how they think they've found something. That's why I asked.
yes codysmom, I'm in Australia... just north of Sydney actually :)
Carol said
"however, like capcom, I have had the notion of some wormhole like connection linking the Trench to the Island... it's the only way I can think of to explain a few things but it's not one I think will be the case."
I was thinking something similar. In "One of Us" S03E16, when Juliet is brought to the island on the Galliga the little cove they are in does not seem to have an exit. It is surrounded by land, my thought is that there isn't a wormhole, but maybe a long passage underground that leads from the trench to that part of the island, this is why Ethan says it is kind of intence. When approaching the island any other way craziness ensues and you end up crashed.
Oh and Carol... Australia huh?... get on a dingy and paddle your way to the island, then we will truely know what is going on... LOL
C-ya all later.
Well, nice to meet you, Carol! How's the weather? I bet it's not the &&*^%%^$% stuff we're getting in Michigan now!
Thanks, memphish. I haven't taken the time yet to watch any of the S3 DVD's with the commentary yet, but I would imagine the ones with Ben would be great (love Michael Emerson)!
Just for fun I looked at IMDb fpr Roger Corser (Sam) and found this interesting:
"He was a university student in Melbourne, Australia when he was chosen from 6000 hopefuls to play the lead role in the hottest musical in a decade, RENT. He performed the lead role in both the Sydney and Melbourne productions."
All this talk of "accidental" finding of the freckage has me wondering who could be behind it. Perhaps it is Oceanic. With Sam being so ill on the news and stuff, maybe they want to shut him up. Maybe Oceanic knows what really happened to the plane and they don't want anyone searching for it. This could mean that everyone on the Christiane1 could be in on it.
I def think they could use sonar to find the freckage if it were in shallow water.
If Magnus Hanso had a journal of everywhere he went, then I would think it would have been with him when he crashed on the island. I think that, if they do have the journal, they got it from someone who has been on the island.
I still don't understand why they would plant the freckage in the Sunda Trench. That makes about as much sense as the island being there.
Sheesh! I just don't know what to think. Yes this is find 815, but that could mean the "real" 815, just us much as it could mean a plant. Although Speaker was asking questions in the beginning of the ARG about what Naomi was talking about when she said they found flight 815. Circles, cirlces, cirlces!
Also, the "love you madly" email is still throwing me off. I agree that only Sam would know Sonya said it to him.
Also, I still think that Talbot knows what is at those coordinates. He told Sam he wouldn't find what he was looking for there. From the beginning, I think the ARG made it clear Talbot knows Sam is looking for his girlfriend.
My guess as to why they would put the freckage in the sundra trench is just so that they could claim to have missed it in there search.
"We didn't think the plane had gotten that far and we never thought to search the deepest parts of the ocean."
Kinda thing, ya know.
I hope the activity is not just before the show, if it is anything like that last one I will end up missing he show completely... lol
Carol...I have spent many hours in the in transit area of the Sydney airport, waiting on connections to Bali or Jakarta. As you know, I am sure..once your thru customs there is no going into the outer portions of the airport. You are trapped! LOL
I want to read the rest of Magnus' journal!
Dear Diary, well today was really special!!!! I met the CUTEST girl and even though she only has four toes on each foot, I am still going to ask her to prom. Wish me luck Diary!
Mag
Nice FYSB. I think it will say either: Dear diary, still on the bloody island. Today I swallowed a bug Or I had that weird dream again, the one with the Black Rock I can't get away from. I try to leave it but it won't let me.
Maybe Claire was channeling Magnus in her journal. Noticed how since she had the baby she hasn't had time for her journal. How true, eh moms? How true.
Here's two theories either Magus Hanso wasn't on the ship when it crashed on the island. He's just buried there. So the journal wouldn't be on the ship.
Or he did crash and the journal was on the ship and Alvar Hanso found it when he was there with Dharma.
Isn't Hanso,Widmore,Paik,Maxwell all connected. Someone could have "inherited" the journal after Alvar disappeared.
I have tried all day to navigate the reef and cannot do it. I end up in a dead end. I have been going up and to the left. I cant seem to find a way out. Please help.
@abbyabitha
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Find_815_clues/January_28
sorry I wasn't around earlier to reply to comments, dropping daughter off for first day back at school ~sigh~
DeDJeZTeR, I've pondered an underwater tunnel too but didn't suggest it as it is so out there... but also slightly less wierd than a sci-fi-esque wormhole.
I think we could have a "road trip" of sorts, Patch can come up from Melbourne, we'd meet the other Aussies in Sydney and head east (not west ;) ) in search of the Island. Or we'll just get those guys that kayaked to NZ and tell them to keep going.
Weather is rather warm today. The aircon is on already and it's only just 10am
ular I've never actually been to the Sydney airport, so alas I don't know what it is like to sit there for hours on end. Maybe I should rock up and ask where the Oceanic desk is?
jess I think a lot of travelers keep separate journals for separate trips, so I don't think there is only one journal (unless he's a lot less wordy than me). Maybe Talbot's employers have a collection of journals to get all these Sunda Trench points from?
I've kinda gone cold on any conspiracy theories that a company is behind the plane crashing on the Island. Desmond caused the crash. That leaves a limited number of characters that could influence the chain of events that caused Desmonds delay in pushing the button. We don't know if Master Manipulator Ben had anything to do with Kelvin so that theory is up in the air. I think that really only leaves the Island as having a plan and causing events and that I don't know is likely.
fysb - LSHFBCOMN
Hey Memphish, Claire should have time to turn her diary into a baby book for Aaron, the firstborn. It's the second, third, and so on, children who always have the empty baby books. :o)
Good theories everyone, with what we have to go on so far!
I am so into the theory that the freckage is going to be found accidentally by Sam (or us). This whole thing has been a set up. I think the mention of the journal is another set up...wouldn't Sam have found it in AMM's briefcase in Talbot's cabin? If there really is a journal, Alvar (through Dharma) could have gotten it off the Black Rock on the island. So, therefore, whomever's behind this "hunt" would know that the Black Rock is not in the Sunda Trench.
The big question is: Who's behind this set up and why. Oceanic Air called off the search to get their business up and running again. We know that the freighter has come to the island for some nefarious purpose (probably using the coordinates found by Penny's crew at Camp Millar). Daddy Widmore could have stolen them...Penny doesn't seem to have assets of her own. Through TLE, we learned that Paik could have been involved in the building or modification of the freighter. All of these people/companies have motives for getting to the island: Hanso, Paik, Widmore. They also have motives (which we don't really know yet), to keep people away from the island, and keep it for themselves. Therefore, they set up this freckage scenario to lay to rest for once and all as to what happened to Flight 815.
Which one of us is going to find the freckage first? LOL
Sayid's girl, you have a point. I had never thought that Magnus' burial would be a completely separate incident to the Black Rock arriving there. However that once again raises the question of how they got to the island more than once (though I think I mentioned before that they probably wouldn't have their navigation hindered quite so much by the islands electromagnetism), and was it deliberate each and every time?
maven, I didn't think Sam dug that deep into the briefcase to look at everything that was in it so maybe it was there and Sam just didn't look at it. Another suggestion is that Talbot doesn't have it with him, just has a copy of the relevant information from it
Carol: Good points. I just don't think the journal exists...it's part of the rouse/cover-up/set-up. The freckage must be "found" in a very deep ocean trench (to discourage recovery) and as far as feasibly possible away from the island.
But I'm willing to be proven wrong!
If the freckage has to be found in a deep trench, so it can't be "recovered"(which I think is a good point), then I don't think we have found it. The Christaine 1 is maneuvering a reef to get to the blip. That means the water there is shallow.
What if final resting place on the Blast Map door doesn't mean burial? What if it's Jacob's cabin?
Jess, I agree we were in shallow not deep water, but I have a feeling they are going to claim, ooh, look the ocean floor suddenly fell 4 miles. That's part of my question too. If they are using something to scan the surface it would have to be pretty sophisticated to vary so markedly in depth so quickly. Also, the actual Black Rock had it been underwater for 150 years would be covered in silt and so forth like the Titanic which was found only 70-80 years after it sank and was made of metal, not wood. I have a feeling I'm just getting nit-picky here, but dadgum it if I'm going to learn about Maxwell's theories, get the Discovery Channel details right.
"Scan the surface of the ocean floor" that should read.
Speaking of those details, I love how in Greatest Hits and TTLG when they are getting to and in The Looking Glass I love how they show schools of fish swimming by.
Jess: Some people over at Dark's are saying that radar only works with things above the water. Sonar is what locates things underwater. So is the reef above or below water? The instrument we were playing with (if you call pulling your hair out playing) is a radar one. Is a reef like an iceberg -- 2/3's of it is underwater?
Plus there have been many mistakes and glitches in the game so far...who knows if this is another one?
Perhaps a-la many undewater movies, the freckage will be found at the edge of a trench crevasse, and then just after they take some film shots to "varify" identification, the whole darn thing tips over and falls down into the abyss. Aw shucks! :o)
Maven- Yes, sometimes part of reefs are above the water. I still don't think that makes a difference though. And that is right, they use sonar underwater. I am pretty sure you have to be right over top of something to detect it on sonar. Interesting point. So is the blip above water? hmmm
Could just be an oversight for TPTB
LOL Capcom!!
Here is the wiki definition of reef:
"In nautical terminology, a reef is a rock, sandbar, or other feature lying beneath the surface of the water yet shallow enough to be a hazard to ships."
Maven- True, but sometimes(especially during low tide) parts of the reef can stick out of the water.
I hope we get some answers today...It has all gotten quite interesting, if I may say.
Here's something that has been bugging me: Ockham says I think we've found Black Rock.
It does not sound like he found a vessel, which would always be referred to with a definitive article, the Black Rock, but like he found a place, as in "we've found Fiji".
When is something supposed to happen next?
Oodles- I kinda thought the same thing last night. Only I wonder what would make him so quickly jump to the conclusion that it was the black rock. A blip on a radar could be anything.
Oodles/Jess: Right! Is there a special blip sound for finding sunken pirate ships? LOL It could be blipping for anything. But in terms of the storyline, I think he said it because they needed something of a cliff-hanger. It wouldn't have worked as well if he just said "we've found something". Capt. Ockham could be in on the plot with Talbot and could just be egging Sam on...continuing to make him think that the Black Rock is the real goal of this trip.
maven said:
Twinkle: I bet our next activity is to manuever an underwater camera and "we" find the freckage!
Oh! That's a great idea, Maven! I bet you're right!
oodles said:
the whole "accidental" finding of the airplane wreckage would smell fishy right away. It would not seem so accidental any more.
I was thinking the same thing! Thanks for pointing out my incorrect remembering about the direction the Black Rock sailed before!
So is whoever is giving Sam clues to the freckage trying to make him disbelieve it?
If Sam is to be on the show, it's been a very well kept secret.
memphish said:
Do you think that was a payment offer by Sam or he meant since we've only been out 30 days you'll make 90 days money in only 30?
I think that's what he means. They've been out less than a month. If Ockham finds it the first month, he triples his money because he can be working the other two months for someone else.
It's Nessie!! :-B
Capcom: The story continues tomorrow night at 6 pm (pst). This work out great for me! LOL At 6 pm, I'll still have 3 hours to TTLG. But thinks have "snucked" in in-between countdown times...emails, and websites, usually.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_data_recorder
Since the recorders can sometimes be crushed into unreadable pieces, or even never located in deep water, some modern units are self-ejecting (taking advantage of kinetic energy at impact to separate themselves from the aircraft) and also equipped with radio and sonar beacons (see emergency locator transmitter) to aid in their location.
Thanks Maven. I'm trying to slap together a sort of comic book version of the game for when my family comes over for the premier show, cuz I don't want to have to explain it all, if knowing about it would indeed make the show more interesting for them. They have already seen the Oceanic BB anyway. I've got 2 1/2 pages so far up to date, and am just waiting for all the graphics to be posted here and everywhere so I can finish it.
Maven Said
"Through TLE, we learned that Paik could have been involved in the building or modification of the freighter."
Are you suggesting that this is all the work Dr. Thomas Middlewerk... duh duh duh
Just to point out, there are fish finder sonars that work exactly like the one sam used on the ship, with the same radar like display.
Okay so I know what lol is and I know what LSHNEMB is, but what is
LSHFBCOMN???
Now is the plan Wednesday to discuss the enchanced TTLG here or over at TLC? The next segment of Find815 sort of coincides with TTLG. Same thing might happen Thursday. The game is supposed to end 2 hours before the show. Would that be the 9 pm premiere or the 8pm recap? So the game will end either 6pm or 7 pm est? For me that would be 3 or 4 pm, right? Am I just confusing myself?
ded- I don't know for sure but I think Carol is laughing so hard that fish biscuits are coming out her nose!
Hi all- just popping in again and catching up on comments. Gotta leave the house again in 10 min. Ugh the life I lead- no journaling for me. ;)
oodles
Men tend to familarize vehicles/vessels (no offense to the men out there) Black Rock is her name.
Which is why he does't use the word the.
My opinion anyway.
the whole reef thing I suspect is an oversight. There was what 100m distance once we made it though that last bottleneck in the activity till we were over the blip so I guess that's enough distance to claim there is a sharp drop in the depth there. If we want to be seriously nit-picky someone (Jonah of the maps maybe?) could dig up the bathymetry of the Trench and demonstrate how innacurate this whole activity has been, but I don't think it will be something that plays a part in the game or show so now that we've made the point that it was a glaring error I'm prepared to move on.
Maybe Talbot has a fournal (fake journal).
But yes, I do think whoever has been sending the emails to Sam has been doing so to aid him (or just us...) in realising that it's not the right wreckage.
I also meant to say that I hope that if they leave the last activity until right before the episode (like to find freckage for example), I hope it isn't as hard as the reef activity otherwise we'll all miss the premiere!
Ded: Laughing So Hard Fish Biscuits Came Out My Nose?
Similar to LSHFBEFMN
Laughing So Hard Fish Biscuits Exploded From My Nose
Oh, Scout you got that.
scoutpost
I know what you mean. I've been wondering the same thing. Are we going to have time to finish before the premiere?!
Maybe the last thing to end the game will just be the Video Diary and we don't have to "do" anything but get ready for the premiere. If that's true the rest of today, tomorrow and Thursday day are going to be very busy...there are a lot of boxes left!
Yeah, and I've chosen not to finish the boat navigation thing so I can't tell when the next thing is supposed to happen. It will still let me see the new e-mails and the next video right? Can I just skip the activity? I don't mind a little red square in My Progress if I can keep going.
twinkle
I'm pretty sure you can continue without doing the activity.
I've done things without logging in and everything is red.
Super! Thanks! So what time do they usually give us stuff on the off days?
Usually the same time 9:00 pm est.
Here's the link to Tomja's little interview with Matt Fox if you want a look. Mot very in depth Lost-wise, but I thought what he said about the relationship between the actors that play the Losties and the actors that play the Others was interesting. :)
http://au.yahoo.com/lost/video/
Right, back to 815..
up date at find815
Yeah! No frakkin difficult activity.
Can't wait to see what y'all think what we did get means though.
Tracey's being sweet again! Guess there's going to be a storm.
In terms of gales (not Henry gales, but wind gales) they use the Beaufort Scale to measure them.
Tsunami!?
Tracey sounds weird. *lol* I didn't think so before, but now I think she IS coming on to Sam!
Well that was a pretty wishy-washy sort of weather forecast if you ask me. It seems to cover everything.
Is me or does that forecast seem kind of vague? I'm not a sailor.
What do we think about the numbers? Password maybe?
Sayid's Girl- great minds! *lol*
The thing about the tsunami though is that it was earthquake not storm triggered. It was a beautiful day in all the places that were decimated. Those wind forecasts, especially the 9 are pretty fierce. Brings to mind the storm that brought Desmond to the Island.
memphish
You're right. Thanks
patch yes and at the same time. :)
Now I'm wondering if maybe Tracey sent the "LOVEYOUMADLY" email...
We also have numbers in the website forcast. I wonder if they figure in with the email numbers?
New Post Gang!
If you haven't noticed new E-mails & voice mail on Sam's desk.
I am way behind,but was able to finish the activity.
also a web site.
The actor who plays Sam is Rodger Corser, he is not listed in the cast of Lost for season 4.
Also Desmond says in S02E03 Desmond says "My boat crashed into the reef." its around the twelve and a half minute mark if you want to check it out.
Well, the weather doesn't have anything to do with a Tsunami. I *do* think the tsunami will play some part in all this, though, or that we might see a potential cause for the Tsunami in S4.
That's thin ice though – putting some large scale disaster like that into a TV show would have to be done tactfully. I suspect we might see something that could be the cause of the tsunami, even if the tsunami isn't specifically mentioned.
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