Monday, 14 January 2008

Chapter 3 - Oscar Talbot's "Syndicate"

Update 1/15: Ninja has found the Sydney graffiti (picture in our "Image" area). Thanks to Carol (aka Lavenda) for the e-mail about this. ~Ange


Chapter 3 begins tonight at Find815.com with a recap of Chapter 2, a video, and an activity.
  • The video:
Begins with, NONE OTHER THAN, a discussion about Christmas Island. How ironic considering Patch, Capcom, and Ellen spent today discussing just that! Sam learns from Mr. Ockham that the Christiane 1 will not be returning to Jakarta until January, after Christmas. (So we get a little idea of a timeline here.) Sam questions Mr. Ockham about who provides the "deep pockets" for Oscar Talbot. Mr. Ockham replies, "a syndicate", so they can plunder heritage sites without spoiling their reputation. As Sam walks away from the conversation, he sees Talbot leaving his room. Of course, he has to go in, which leads us to the activity.


  • The activity for Chapter 3 takes place in Oscar Talbot's Cabin. The objective is to find the clues that:
  1. Lead to Talbot's briefcase (see the above picture *click to enlarge).
  2. Find the code to open the briefcase. (Hints: Think where numbers would be stored, and check the initials on the briefcase.)

Once you are able to open the briefcase you are taken to another video. This second video shows Sam going through Oscar Talbot's briefcase. You can see what he finds HERE. It seems we do have a connection to Widmore.

158 comments:

Codysmom said...

yay!! first!!!

Codysmom said...

where'd everybody go?

jess4ua said...

I am here

Capcom said...

This is gettin' good! Now, do we know yet if Sam is living in 2007 time (before Xmas)? Or somehwere in between the crash and now? Tx.

Codysmom said...

From the previous post, it's a good question whether or not Widmore is the one sending Sam to find 815 or if it's someone else. It could maybe be Penny looking for the island and Desmond, too. What other motivations/links can we think of?

OT... Did anyone else see "Penny" on the Sarah Conner Chronicles tonight?

Codysmom said...

Ah, ppls...

Codysmom said...

I would assume the timeline to be around the same as where the show is at. It would be almost Christmas 2004?

jess4ua said...

Maven - what Widmore connection are you referring too?

Capcom - I still say Dec 2004

codysmom - I guess we have to find out who is behind The Maxwell Group.

Codysmom said...

If anyone needs it I wrote down all the names and phone numbers from the activity.

Capcom said...

That makes the most sense to me. But some are still throwing the possiblities around, and I get confused. :-B

Kirsten said...

I also saw "Penny" on the new Terminator show! I squealed with delight - even though she wasn't on Lost. I did notice her hair was the same, so I presume we'll still see her on Lost every now and then - I hope anyway.

Codysmom said...

Kirsten, you're right... her hair is the same! I wouldn't have thought of that.

Ange said...

Okay, that was fun...I'm pooped and Jess did a great job on tonight's post! Check out the Photobucket for a few screen shots (links on the main page too.)

Goodnight gang!

jess4ua said...

codysmom - I have a link to all of the cell phone numbers on photobucket HERE and HERE.

Codysmom said...

jess4ua, boy... you're quick!

Codysmom said...

BTW, I want to say what a great job Fenris, Ange, Jess, and whoever else is doing on this blog!

Ellen said...

Thanks, Ange & Jess for the mention!
I'm pondering the info we've gotten from all this tonight...
Widmore-Maxwell connection, Black Rock Salvage Expedition, 150 mi from Christmas Island, so Sam is stuck on the boat. Wonder what he's thinking about the Widmore-Maxwell connection...

so many questions!!!!
xxoo

jess4ua said...

I just updated the front page with a link to a pic of the Widmore connection.

Thanks everyone!

Codysmom said...

That's good, Jess4ua... it seems important.

The Widmore/Maxwell connection certainly is interesting. In Bad Twin it's about the Widmore/Hanso/Paik connections. I looked at Lostpedia for a refresher and it talked about Widmore and Hanso having joint ventures... "In Chapter 23, in an apparent new change in the board at Widmore, Alvar Hanso was replaced by Thomas Mittelwerk." Ah, memories of TLE..

I wonder if good old Alvar is helping Sam via the cryptic e-mails and such? Or, maybe it's Alvar with the help of his long-lost daughter, Rachel?

Codysmom said...

I find it strange that Talbot has a briefcase that isn't his. Someone at Dark's thinks Talbot stole it from someone who works for Widmore so he can get info about the Black Rock and get all the gold.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I think the fact that the briefcase isn't his will be very important. If Talbot works for Maxwell Group, I'm Joop's uncle.

maven said...

Agreed that A.M.M.'s briefcase in Talbot's possession could be important. It's obviously someone known to him, since his # is on his phone list. Or maybe he's going through that list getting info from them to he can find the Black Rock gold himself. Talbot might be trying to beat the Maxwell Group/Widmore to the Black Rock first.

maven said...

I guess my comment above is similar to what Codysmom posted about a theory over at Dark's. Oh, well...

maven said...

We still haven't seen any connection between the Black Rock and Flight 815, have we? Wonder how that will tie in.

Watching Terminator: There's a snapshot that John looks at when he visits Dixon's house...it has our "Penny" in it, and looks very similar to the Penny/Desmond pic!

AS6 said...

Next update in 44 HOURS?! This is moving just a little bit too slow.

Codysmom said...

Hi Maven, yes, I saw that snapshot too with Penny in it, reminiscent of the Des/Penny picture.

I'm wondering if the Black Rock/815 connection will be that they accidentally find the "staged"(IMO) 815 crash in their search for the Black Rock.

Kyle, TBP... LOL, Joop's uncle!!

Not many people on here tonight. Right now I'm googling all the names that came up on the phone and finding some interesting stuff.

Codysmom said...

As6, yeah, wow... 44 hours? Do you suppose the Maxwell group site is really temporarily out of service til 2/1/2008 and there's no use trying to get a username or password til then?

Carol Dunstan said...

catching up yet again. interesting that we are getting a confirmed connection between Widmore and Maxwell. Would love to find out more about that - here's hoping!

going back to comments in the last post, Ellen mentioned Palmyra Island. I remember researching that during the last game too! And it, I'm sure, along with the Bermuda Triangle, were part of the global grid thing I mentioned before. Well, I finally found out what they were... Vile Vortices. Wiki has very little on them, but not sure whether it is worth looking into them again.

Can I also point out that the Christmas Island mentioned in the Line Islands link (including Palmyra Island) is a completely different island to the one that Sam made reference to. The Line Island Christmas Island is in the Pacific and is also known as Kiritimati. Sam's Christmas Island is in the Indian Ocean. Don't worry, even the Queen has got them confused.

Carol Dunstan said...

Ninja has a pic of the Sydney billboard grafitied.

And while I'm posting again I'll mention something else that is bugging me... It is only (some of) those on the island and us that know about a connection between Black Rock and 815 isn't it? Twinkle brought this up in the last comments. At the moment we don't know of anyone off the island that is aware of a connection.

Much the same can be said for 815 and Desmond... it's only us and them. That is until Charlie made contact with Penny, however it seems that is before the timeline of this game. So if Penny is involved in the Christiane or helping Sam... I can't see it as being part of her search for Desmond. Certainly not Sam, maybe she's taken to exploring every anomalous region of water in search of Desmond but that seems a stretch

Ange said...

cody's mom said...Do you suppose the Maxwell group site is really temporarily out of service til 2/1/2008 and there's no use trying to get a username or password til then?

Could it be possible that we'll get a big time jump/move ahead in the story line this week that'll take it to February in the game?

Also, I need some thoughts in the 259 prefix on the numbers in Talbot's phone. We got an e-mail mentioning that they are Canadian, but when I do a prefix search +259 comes out as Zanzibar. Anyone?

memphish said...

I was just going to ask that question Ange. Where is 259 and then only 6 digit phone numbers?

I know an A Mullins. I went to high school with him. :)

Lost 2010 said...

Is the picture supposed to be bright like the one posted here? When I get there it's dark and when the little hand lights up and I click on things nothing happens. What am I doing wrong?

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

lost2010: That's the first trick in the game. How do you make a dark room bright?

Sayid'sgirl said...

So is Talbot seasick. That seems odd.
Does anyone know if there's a close up on the map on the wall. It has an arching line from the Pacific Ocean through what looks like Thailand into the Indian Ocean. And there are some number written on the map. I'm assuming it's the search area. But why does it extend to the Pacific?
I still think they ended up going through the Dragon's Triangle somehow. I'm starting to sound Chucklez and his prugatory. :)

Speaker said...

And I posted the South Korean one last night as well :)

http://www.insidetheexperience.com

Lost 2010 said...

kyle - Thanks. Can't seem to get the neurons firing properly this morning.

Ange said...

Hellooooo Speaker!! Awesome:)!

Speaker's Seoul post was part of our Sunday update...folks can check out all of the links to ITE and images on the main page if you're so inclined.

Sayid's girl said...So is Talbot seasick. That seems odd.

Well, I went on a cruise and didn't get seasick until day 2 when we were really rolling on the open sea. Or do you think he's getting sick from something else...the sickness?

Sayid'sgirl said...

ange
Yeah I was kind of curious if it could be something else.
But I guess it could just be rough seas.

Twinkle said...

I'm totally convinced now, like others have said, that Sam's action is taking place at the same time as the end of S3 of Lost. It's December 2004 there, probably before Charlie and Penny's conversation about the connection between Desmond and 815.

Who on the outside would know of a connection between the Black Rock and 815 or Black Rock and Desmond? Hanso. I bet Hanso lost the ability to come to the island, possibly after the Purge or after the crash. Widmore may also know. They could be acting under direction from Hanso or separately.

If Ben thinks the freighter is the enemy, maybe he thinks it's Dharma/Hanso since it'd be unlikely that someone with less knowledge could access the island. That may also be why he believes they'll all be killed.

So the freighter could be sent by Hanso or Widmore. The Christiane 1, we now know, was sent by Widmore. If the timing theory is correct, Penny would not yet know enough to be behind either.

It seems plausible that Widmore/Hanso sent the freighter to the real island while they sent Christiane 1 to the fake 815 wreck.

Ange said...

Also oops...I meant "Monday's Update" in my last comment. I had a snow day yesterday and seem to be in a time warp.

Twinkle said...

Lostpedia's timeline has Cooper (who said 815 had been found) on the island on Dec 12th.

Naomi said that 815 had been found on Dec 18th. Of course if the fake was made by Widmore/Hanso and she was sent by them, then it doesn't matter whether the wreck had been found yet or not.

If Sam is being sent to find the fake wreck 815, then it could be late November or very early December in his time.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Twinkle said: I bet Hanso lost the ability to come to the island, possibly after the Purge or after the crash.

On the whole, your idea is interesting, but regarding the above comment, how would that reconcile with the pallet drop?

Twinkle said...

Sorry, that should be "Naomi said on Dec 18th that 815 had been found."

Snow days, Ange! I miss snow days. Not snow though. :-)

Twinkle said...

Good point, Kyle. It's possible that pallet drops were the extent of what Dharma was capable of doing. I'm wondering now if it's even necessary for them to lose the ability to come to the island.

I'm looking for the date of the Purge. The best guess on Lostpedia is early to mid 90's. If Hanso could keep coming to the island, why didn't they get revenge then. If it is Hanso/Widmore behind the freighter, then they had some other reason to get to the island now. Did they just figure out the connection with 815? How?

Capcom said...

Interesting info Carol. :-) As for Penny, maybe she can't really go on global searches of her own, without Daddy knowing about it and knowing that she's gone. So she might be aiding from afar, people that she finds who might have a stake in learning what she needs to learn. Just like how she sets up guys at remote stations to monitor things that she can't herself? Just a thought. A big stretch, not likely probable.

Wow, nice thought about the sickness! Maybe it's the magnetism that gets some people sick and crazy. the closer you get the more you feel it. The so-called vaccine could be something that helps your brain counter the effects of it. Perhaps some people are more suseptible than others.

And now, in this new game, we have more people, on multiple sides, crossing vague lines, who could have either bad or good intentions. Dangitt. I wonder if we can even trust Sam?! JK.

Twinkle said...

Sorry, I just can't leave off the following this line of thought. If Hanso/Widmore is behind the freighter arriving on the island and if they are behind the Christiane 1 finding the fake 815 wreck, what does Hanso/Widmore gain from it? If they take Jack, Kate, and ??? off the island, how do they explain these people reappearing when they already faked the 815 wreckage? And what pact with Jack and Kate would Hanso/Widmore want to make?

Most likely there are some elements TPTB haven't introduced to us and playing around with the ones we already know won't get us far. But it's intriguing to speculate.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Well, I have to say that I'm still uncomfortable, if that's the right word, making a connection between the Christiane I and the Black Rock and the Island and Flight 815.

I know there's got to be some connection other than simply the last name "Widmore," but I just haven't seen good evidence that we should be expecting either A) the Island to somehow be located in the Indian Ocean, B) the Christiane I to show up at the Island somehow, or C) the freighter to somehow be connected to all the events in Find 815.

I'm not skeptical, I'm just intellectually frustrated that TPTB continue to lead us in two diametrically opposite geographical directions.

FYSB said...

Well, there's another group who could know about the Black Rock and can communicate with the outside world....The Others. Could there be a connection between Mittelos and Widmore/Maxwell?

maven said...

Very good thoughts from everyone on how is it possible to connect Black Rock/Flight 815/the Island/Widmore-Hanso together in a coherent way. I still don't think we have all the parts of this puzzle.

Why would someone at Widmore/Mawell Group want Sam on the Christiane I? Is that someone Penmy going behind her father's back? What would her motivation be? She just wants to find Desmond, not the survivors of 815. I can't make that connection in my head yet. Didn't she just find out from Charlie on Dec. 23rd that Desmond was there with the survivors of 815?

Why would Widmore/Maxwell Group be looking for the Black Rock? How much gold could be on that ship? And it's not a given that there is gold on it. Salvage operations must be expensive. Could it just be a ploy to get Flight 815 "accidently" found?

And mentioning that Talbot works for a "syndicate" would indicate many companies. Does that equal Widmore/Hanso/Paik?

I do think that this story will end with Sam and the Christiane I just happening to find remains of 815 in the trench. This opens up a huge can of worms: If we take the FF of Jack as true, then how can this find of 815 in the trench be reconciled? How does Oceanic explain that?

I did notice that Talbot seemed a little seasick coming out of his room. I like the talk about this maybe being the "sickness" as they get closer to electromagnetic anomalies.

memphish said...

As for reconciling the pallet drops with loss of ability to find the Island, there has been some hint by TPTB in the Blu-Ray extras from the S3 DVDs that the pallet drops may not originate off Island. Here's a link to the transcript of those extras. Supply drops is #5.

It dawned on me just now that what used to seem mysterious to me in terms of Talbot's knowledge of Sam is not mysterious at all given Sam's televised appearances protesting the call off of the search for 815.

FYSB said...

I asked myself the same question about Widmore needing the gold...it's a gazillion dollar business. The only answer I could come up with is that it's not the gold they're looking for, it's the island. And if they know somehow that the Black Rock is on the island (either through some island to real world communication or deducing it from the same research Sam has seen about the anomalies) then they have a great cover story as to why they're searching that area. Also, Hanso must have known about the Black Rock from the Dharma Initiative folks. What if there's something else on or connected with the Black Rock besides gold?

My head hurts.

jess4ua said...

I have to agree that Talbot probably isn't working for The Maxwell Group in finding the Black Rock. I do find it strange that he would have the phone number of the person that owns the briefcase he stole. Does it belong to an associate from work? Also, if Talbot is not "backed" by Widmore, where are his "deep pockets" coming from?
I "think", that I still "think", that the freighter is Widmore or Hanso (since they are connected).
The rest of what I am about to say is stretching it, but.......
I am starting to buy into the theory that the freighter is the Helgus Antonious from TLE. At the end of TLE Mittelwerk had a plan for that boat. On the subject of sickness, I think that Mittelwerk sent the Helgus Antonious to the island to spread the virus he escaped with. That may be why Ben said they would all die. Perhaps that is why there are vaccinations. It could even be possible that it has happened before.(Rousseau and Kelvin) Also, the Helgus Antonious has quarantined sections that could be used for transporting the bodies back for research, or maybe even house animals or something that is going to spread the virus. Salvaging the Black Rock, may just be to cover up their real intentions.
:D
I am still thinking that Penny has sent the Christiane 1. She has "deep pockets" and probably has access to confidential files at Widmore.

maven said...

FYSB: Agreed that there's more to Black Rock than meets the eye. It can't just be a stash of gold. Maybe there are secret documents on board from Magnus Hanso, that would be devastating to present day Hansos and they need to be destroyed.

We still don't know who's behind the freighter, either. Naomi told the story that the coordinates to island was given by Penny (who she never met) and the island appeared to them when the clouds parted. The picture of Penny and Desmond could have been given to hear as a ploy to confirm that story. That would lean toward Widmore being behind the freighter. It has to be more than just Hanso/Dharma seeking revenge finally on the Hostiles.

Could Daddy Widmore just be going to extreme lengths to keep Penny and Desmond apart (ala Ben keeping Karl and Alex apart)? Nah...it has to be more than that!

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't know why the Maxwell Group would be looking for the Black Rock other than it belonging to Magnus Hanso. Maybe there was something else on that ship. But why would they wait this long to look for it.
Naomi said her ship was searching a grid looking for Desmond which they thought was crazy because they were looking in the middle of the ocean. Until she just happened to see the island and bailed out of her helicopter.
I'm not sure how close the holidays are in Sam's story but the Captain did say he would be missing them and that they wouldn't dock in Jakarta until early January.
I still think Naomi's ship and Sam's ship are two different ships. I'm not sure who in the Maxwell Group would want him to be on the Christiane 1.
It could be Penny but it would have to be an awfully fast ship to be in the same area as Naomi's ship when she just found out Desmond is on the island with the 815 survivors.
But then again time is supposedly different on the island.
It really is hard to piece together.

maven said...

Sayid'sgirl: I know, any scenario we come up with has so many holes (sorry guys). We just don't have all the puzzle pieces yet.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I see in the time it took me to type that long post and answer the phone that fysb and maven have had similar thoughts.
Also when I brought up that Naomi's ship was searching a grid I meant to compare it to Sam's ship which is also searching a grid to find the Black Rock.

memphish said...

I agree this is not Naomi's ships because if it was, where are the helicopters? We've got good screen caps of the Christiane 1.

I think there must be something other than gold on the Black Rock as well that Widmore/Maxwell is looking for. But here's something weird. If Talbot is employed by a syndicate to create deniability for the syndicate backers, why the big labels of Maxwell and Widmore on the salvage plan? That doesn't create plausible deniability. I still also don't get why they would look in the Sunda Trench for a ship heading east from Papua New Guinea.

I suppose we'll get some emails and other odds and ends tonight that will hopefully start to clear things up a little. Anyone seen anything anywhere else about those phone numbers yet?

shellma said...

Morning all!! Just catching up.
I am also starting to form the opinion that Sam's ship will be the ship that finds the "Freckage"(hehe...get it....fake wreckage) :)
I have never seen that page from Lostpedia, Memphish!!! SOme cool stuff!
"Damon Lindelof: One of the things we’re learning is that the Island is very hard to get to in fact uh specially hard to get to safely so uh he would have to you would have to have a very large magnet pulling a very large metal object towards it in order to get through the barriers defenses is that the word we should use?"
So the Island has some sort of outer defense system.... And the sub has to be pulled though it with a big magnet....
Interresting.

shellma said...

OH, I also tend to agree that the Freighter is the HA from TLE.

FYSB said...

I nominate Shellma for Vice President in Charge of Naming Things....first TPTFU, now Freckage. Very funny stuff.

This reminds me of those word games we used to play as kids, where you're given limited information and you have to make a grid to figure out who's who (the leader has blue eyes, karen has green eyes and a limp, the victim had no shoes, etc.)

shellma said...

Haha! Thank's FYSB.
I agree. There are so many theories, and so many pieces of information, but nothing definatively links them all together. Like Kyle said.I have other theories, but they come from the stuff on Dark's site...so I'll keep them to myself.

scoutpost said...

Morning all!
Well I need to catch up on comments, but have to finish that later. So far reading twinkle...Maybe Ben is trying to keep Hanso/Widmore/Paik, etc. off the island because of the natural inhabitants and properties of the island (so he killed off Dharma). Hanso could want it for bad reasons? That would back up Ben saying he's a "good guy"- Ben is protecting and controlling the island, doesn't let many people come and go, and when the buttons didn't get pushed and Jack contacted the freighter, it jeopardizes everything and everyone. I guess the food drops could come from the island where the Hydra is, and dropped on the other island where the Swan was. Of course I haven't really rationed this all out, so it may be full of holes.

This is getting so interesting and it makes me so excited for the return of LOST, I just so wish we were getting the whole season!

Codysmom said...

I second Shellma for Vice President in Charge of Naming Things.... yes!!! Freckage!

I love all the theories being thrown out here today.

Ange said...

This is such a great discussion. I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say this, going with the What would Widmore/Maxwell want an old gold/slave ship? If we go with the weirdo time thing maybe they are looking for someone who was on the Black Rock that is supposedly dead, but is still kicking around on the island. How they would know this comes from transmissions between the island and the real world, as well as people like Mr. Alpert who seem to be able to travel to and fro. Ben might know this person, and be trying to protect them and whatever importance they have. Maybe it's Jacob... I dunno. It's kind of far fetched, but Mr. Alpert and his age is really bugging me in combination with all this Earhart stuff.

Although none of the above has anything to do with TK, half-invisible apparitions, infertility, rabbits dropping out of thin air, Room 23, The Valenzetti equation and autistic savants, etc…so sheesh there is too much to think about!

We are supposed to think that Widmore/Maxwell has some interest in the Black Rock, although I tend to agree with those that say it’s Penny who hired Sam and supplied him with a file pilfered for her own use.

Memphish: That was an awesome transcript. I always thought it was weird that the pallets just showed up with no airplane noise.

The Sickness: Here is an article from the Telegraph.co.uk (2005). It discusses the possibility of "electromagnetic hypersensitivity" (EHS) and possible symptoms including ill health, nausea, fatigue, severe headaches and skin problems. Take it with a grain of salt because it’s disputed that EHS actually exists, but it's a possibility for Talbot.

memphish said...

I just wanted to remind everyone, myself included that Ben doesn't say everyone will die, he says everyone will be killed. Big difference. (And of course apparently wrong given the end of S3.)

Codysmom said...

I think Ben says something like "every LIVING person will be killed" .... so weird

Ellen said...

Hi Everyone!
I've been reading and lurking and I have to tell you...you guys are incredibly creative in your thought processes. Given the gaps in information that we've been given, the theories you guys are discussing are great. I agree that Helgus-Antonius plays into this somewhere. I also think it's the freighter that Naomi came from. I also think that there is a more sinister aspect here:
I think Mittlewerk is indeed trying to carry out the spider protocol (from TLE I)on the island (considered the alpha site.) He does have to find it first, since the purple sky thing happened, he has to find it by actually looking for it, hence, the grid search. I can't for the life of me figure out why he would order a search near the Sunda Trench rather than the south pacific, but, hey, he's probably got all the info we don't have.
I was watching season 3 again for the past two days, and I noticed that when Ben and his dad came to the island, they didn't seem to have been sedated or traumatically transported, or surely Roger would have had something to say about it. If they were able to travel to the island fully awake when Dharma occupied it, then Ben must have done something to make discovery of and travel to the island difficult or traumatic at best to discourage visitors after the purge.
And how is our Sam to find it? I mean, he has some massive obstacles to overcome just to find the island. I'm pretty sure he's clueless about what he's actually looking for. He has fallen into a situation that involves some major power players, and I don't think he's going to be happy about it when he finds out about everything.
Wanted to say hi and good to see you guys thinking and posting!!!
**back to lurking** xxoo

Ellen said...

Sorry about the massive post, but all your posts sparked my "inner writer"!!! (hahaha)

xxoo

FYSB said...

Ok, Ange, make a little room on that limb for me....

If they're looking for someone on the Black Rock...Magnus Hanso?

Or, what if they're looking for descendants of survivors? Descendants who survived the "sickness" and now have some sort of genetic predisposition that can be exploited? Though I have no idea how there can be descendants since there probably weren't any women on the ship, but maybe they hooked up with the lovely ladies of Tribe of the Four Toes.

FYSB said...

One other thing....we've been reminded repeatedly that the Black Rock sailed east instead of west. What if Magnus was purposely taking them to the island? They had slaves with them (we saw their skeletons). Maybe they needed the slaves as a labor force to do/build something (like having Sawyer and Kate digging rocks for them). A Victorian version of the Dharma Initiative?

shellma said...

Ok, it just dawned on me that Hanso Indu. HAS to know EXACTLY where the black rock is. Hanso Indu. was DHARMA. So Talbot can't be working for Hanso/Widmore. Otherwise he would know exaclty where he was going.
I'm a little slow sometimes.....

Twinkle said...

Ange said (among others): What would Widmore/Maxwell want an old gold/slave ship?

The theory I'm most fond of says that Hanso/Widmore aren't looking for the Black Rock. Widmore/Hanso sent the Christiane 1 to look for the Black Rock because they want them to find the freckage (Thank you, Shellma!) that the Widmore/Hanso group planted. Sam is on board to lend the discovery some authenticity. He's already comfortable in front of the camera. A grieving lover who believes in the wreckage is very convincing. Also it shuts him up so he stops meddling.

Around the same time as Sam and the Christiane 1, Wimore/Hanso sent another ship, the freighter, to the real island to make contact. They too found it due to the pulse when Penny did. The freighter is posing to be from Penny looking for Desmond but it's a ruse. It would make sense then for Ben to think they'd all get killed in retaliation for the Purge. Something's changed that has made finding and getting to the island easier.

Dec 23rd - Last date of Lost S3 (island time); Penny finds out from Charlie that 815 survivors and Desmond are on an island
Dec 18th - Naomi says 815 was found with all dead (which I believe she knows isn't true).
Dec 12th - Cooper is on the island and says 815 had been found.
Dec ? - Cooper is abducted
Dec ? - The freckage of flight 815 is found.
Nov/Dec ? - Sam leaves on the Christiane 1

I agree though that we don't have all the pieces yet. Wasn't the Helgus Antonius/Mittlewerk timeline happening in 2006?


It's fun thinking some of our Others may be Black Rock survivors. What if the Adam and Even they found buried turn out to be Penny and Desmond? I hope we get to find out more about the "tribe of four toes" and Jacob! A Victorian version of the DI sounds fascinating!

Twinkle said...

Addition: Talbot would be on board the Christiane 1 because Hanso/Widmore (Shellma, you got a new term for them for me?) hired Talbot to find the Black Rock. He may or may not know that their real purpose is to find the freckage.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Just remember...putting the Helgus into play means providing an answer for why it was (potentially) dispatched from Sri Lanka in Summer 2006 and is (apparently) arriving at our Island in December 2004.

Ellen said...

Kyle, you're right about that. BUT, time lines are a bit anomalous in this adventure, no?

Sayid'sgirl said...

How do we think the people on the freighter know Penny is looking for Desmond, and decide to use that as a cover story for why they are there?
Do we think Penny's father knows she's looking for him. If I was Penny I wouldn't let him know.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Oh, you bet they are! But time travel--official time travel--has been explained at least parascientifically in the show. When Desmond traveled backwards, it was because of the electromagnetic energy going critical. It may not hold up to scientific scrutiny, but it's an attempt to explain.

We'd have to find a similar explanation for something as large as a freighter bopping backwards a year and a half in the middle of the ocean.

shellma said...

I think I've come to the conclusion that time has to pass more slowly on the Island.....there is no other explanation for Richard Alpert.

jess4ua said...

Kyle- Darkufo is reporting that the ship dates from ACMM have been changed back to 2004. If that is true, it puts the timing right for the HA.

Ange - you are reading my mind! I thought the same thing about Magnus Hanso. The only thing that is hindering that thought process for me is the blast door map saying the Black Rock is his final resting place. hmmmm

Memphish - Thanks for clarifying the die v. killed. I guess releasing a deadly virus would be killing not dying. hehehe

codysmom said: I think Ben says something like "every LIVING person will be killed" .... so weird
That makes a flag go up in my brain everytime he says that. What could that possibly mean?

shellma said...

Oh, and they've all but said that's how they will explain Walt's aging.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

shell: How, then, to explain Ben's aging from pre-teen to adult?

Ben's off-hand comment to Richard--"You remember birthdays, don't you Richard?"--is in my opinion a big fat flashing neon sign saying "THIS IS A CLUE." There's something about the Hostiles that makes them more than human.

scoutpost said...

Boy you guys are cookin' today!

Sayid's girl- That is what I want to know...how does the freighter/Naomi and co. know that Penny was looking for Desmond and had the info from the boys in the ice station?

So are there 2 boats? the freighter and a boat of Penny's? Is the Christiane 1 Penny's boat? Is she the one who sent Sam the info to follow? Are there other people who know about the boys in the ice hut and what they were looking for- are they privately hired by Penny, or are they employees of Widmore, etc.?

Carol Dunstan said...

Can I just say how much I hate scrolling from the comments back up to the compose section? By the time I get back up here I have lost my train of thought!

Seems a lot of us are thinking much the same. Had Dharma come across the Black Rock? Once again memory is failing me and I don't know if we have any indication that Dharma knew about it, and if they did were they aware of it's connection to Hanso... did they pass the knowledge on?

As Twinkle pointed out, few people seem to know about the island (or at least care), so it is reasonable for Ben to assume that the freighter is connected to Dharma. But what if someone within them has gone rogue (wouldn't be the first time)? Your suggestion that they are behind both the freighter and the Christiane is interesting... the Christiane is a diversion? Has someone sent Talbot on a wild goose chase? Why? Is it to uncover the fake wreakage? I forget now who it was that commented about how the fake would be explained... all I can think is whoever has faked it thinks they have covered their trail enough not to be discovered. The revelation to the rest of the world that it is a fake is yet to come and it will be interesting to see how they explain it... why would someone fake the crash???

capcom, I agree that Penny couldn't physically go on worldwide searches for Desmond, but she's obviously been up to something behind Daddys back.

sayid's girl mentioned the map with a line going from the Pacific and up through the Devil's triangle then into the Indian Ocean. I shall have to have a look for a close up for it, but if it is a path they are concentrating the search on maybe they are working their way east... around the Sunda Trench for a month or so, re-stock in Jakarta then off to search in the Pacific? I've been discussing a lot of this with my sister (so you guys are saved some of my thought process) and something I mentioned to her was that possibly the Black Rock went near the Trench on it's way to PNG and that maybe they dumped something there. It is common knowledge they were last sited heading east from PNG, so how have they explained to those involved ith the Christiane the search being west of PNG? Ockham doesn't find it strange that big business goes after these things (what does he know about the Black Rock?). Expeditions like this must cost a bit, do they salvage enough for it to be profitable?

oh and the way they refer to Christmas in the video leading up to the briefcase activity seems odd to me... we just don't refer to it as the holidays like that! Maybe I'm out of touch with the rest of Australia, but it just doesn't sit right with me. That's just a nit-pick though, I doubt it's got any significance within the game.

gah, by the time I post this there's probably been another 50 comments!

Ellen said...

Yes, Kyle! I am writing a treatise on time, space and space-time. It explains a lot about how time lines can converge, how walt is able to project himself to other places and times, etc. I'll post a link when finished. I'm sure you'll find it interesting. It certainly explains a lot of the strange things happening on the island!
xxoo

scoutpost said...

good point Kyle. And, if Richard should "remember" birthdays, then did he age at one point and then stop? If people indigenous to the island never aged, then they might not have celebrated birthdays.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

jess: Boy, does that bum me out. I hate revisionist history. TPTB always assure us they've known where they were going from the beginning, but then with these side stories, they have to go back and change stuff to make the new stuff fit.

My worst fear is that Find 815 is being written by non-Guild writers who have no access to the creative process that developed TLE. It makes me worried not just for the integrity of the storyline now but for Seasons 5 and 6, and beyond. If ABC is willing/able to monkey this much with previous work product, then I'm concerned for the creative integrity of Damon and Carlton's vision.

shellma said...

Not sure, Kyle. Only thing I can think is that RIchard could have been born there, whereas Ben was not.....

shellma said...

Jess, Kyle....there's an ongoing fight over at darkufo on whether that site is offical....is it?

jess4ua said...

I just went back and read the Spider Protocol letter from lostpedia.
Here it is:
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:53:06 -0500
>> To:

From:
Subject: SP site -


Team -


After careful scrutiny of the census figures, geological
reports, customs inquiries and geographical surveys prepared
by yourselves and the experts at the CCS, the core group has
deemed, regretfully, that site alpha


(4888), beta (1060), and delta (10120) remain

unsuitable for carrying 00000000000000>>>> out the SPIDER
PROTOCOL -- even taking into consideration the recommended
parametric recalibrations. --------


Despite my initial (and continued) reticence, it seems
that fate has dealt its card. We may have no choice but to fall
back


to the original island target. While THF has not utilized
the site for some time, its unique properties render it more
than adequate for our purposes at this particular juncture.


Namaste.
TM

How interesting that it says they have to fall back to the original island target.

scoutpost said...

I agree with you Carol about blogger and scrolling back up. I want the old blogger back.


If Talbot works for Maxwell/Widmore and was sent on a wild goose chase (unbeknown-sp? to him), then why does it appear he might have stolen a briefcase from someone w/initials A.M.M.? Do you think he's a fake, posing for someone who was supposed to be on there from Maxwell grp?

jess4ua said...

Shellma - I am not sure if it is or not. Does anyone else remember?

Carol Dunstan said...

what did I say? Not 50 comments, but still a lot!

I knew there wasn't something right about the possibility that the Helgus was the freighter. And last night I was fine with the ACMM changing dates but then I wasn't thinking about how that affected TLE... that just totally screws things doesn't it? I'm with Kyle, some hinky science is ok, but they can only go so far.

Looking for Magnus? That thought crossed my mind. We don't know when he died. We don't know how Kelvin and Radzinsky knew that was his final resting place. We don't know if anyone off the island knows when he died.

shellma said...

Then they must know where the island is jess!!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

shell, thanks for reminding me to check for in-game status a la TLE!

According to good ol' Sledgeweb, it is not in-game

Carol Dunstan said...

scout, if Talbot has been sent on a wild goose chase... he thinks he stole someones briefcase (how else would he end up with a briefcase with initials that don't match his own?), but really he was given the opportunity to acquire it...

hmm, I thought the ACMM site had been proved legit. If it's not then no problem ;)

alright, I really need some breakfast!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Do castmember interviews in LOST Magazine count as spoilers, even if they don't say anything specific?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Ok I'm going to be stupid here. I've racked my brain but I don't know what ACMM refers to.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

sayid'sgirl: Sorry, it took me a bit and then I never spelled it out. Allied Copenhagen Marine Merchants (Hanso's company).

Sayid'sgirl said...

Oh! Duh Thanks Kyle

FYSB said...

What if Talbot lied and he's not Talbot at all but Mullins posing as Talbot?

jess4ua said...

Shellma - Yes, I thought the same thing.

Also, Ange is working on changing the comment format. It will be different in a few minutes.

jess4ua said...

FYSB - Hahahaha, you are making my brain hurt!

FYSB said...

Jess, I'm picturing a scooby doo ending when Talbot/Mullins rips off his mask to reveal Joop!

"and I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky Australian IT professionals"

Carol Dunstan said...

fsyb, interesting idea... but why? (and I don't expect you to know, just wondering what in-game/show reasoning there could be)

jess4ua said...

Okay, Ange fixed the comments. I had to go back to the main page, and then back to comments to get the popup window to come up.

Twinkle said...

You know some say that if you regenerate enough you stop aging. Oh wait...I'm crossing my story lines. ;-)

Carol, my solution for scrolling through comments and forgetting my thoughts is to open up a notepad file and respond while I'm reading. Yes, I know, I'm a geek.

Yes, who is writing this ARG? Are they going to be true to the mythology and are they getting paid?

About the briefcase, who says Talbot stole it? His employer may have prepared it for him and then given him the entire briefcase. AMM posing as Talbot is a great idea too, fysb!

Here's one way I judge the likeliness of a theory about the outcome of this ARG. I think of the one that will give me the least new information and be a slight let-down. Sam finding the freckage would fit that bill. :-P

Twinkle said...

Thanks for changing the comments!

So if the Others are determined to preserve the island and it's mysteries, working with whatever paranormal forces are there, and Hanso/DI is determined to use the island for its purposes, has come back to eradicate the Others, and work against the mysterious forces of the island. Who would you cheer for? That'd be a tough call for me.

Ange said...

108?! And I changed the comments from iPhone. I just thought that was cool.

FYSB said...

Carol, I'm assuming you're asking the why about Mullins masquerading as Talbot and not why Joop is masquerading as Talbot. You're right I have no idea, but that doesn't stop me from speculating. If Talbot is rich and powerful and Mullins is just a regular guy, he'd certainly get a lot more attention/respect/authority if he posed as Talbot. Which would mean that Mullins has yet another agenda on why find the island. But it's just as likely that Mullins prepared the files and gave them to Talbot in his locked briefcase. Though it's not very secure to use your phone number as your own lock code. Isn't that kinda like using your birthdate?

shellma said...

Ahhh...thanks ANge!
FYSB said...
Jess, I'm picturing a scooby doo ending when Talbot/Mullins rips off his mask to reveal Joop!

"and I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky Australian IT professionals"

OMG ROFL!!
That notepad thing is a good idea Twinkle!

shellma said...

Hey, what's the deal with ITE?
Sure doesn't seem like Speaker is really using that too much. Is he posting somewhere else. I noticed he posted on our blog! WE'RE FAMOUS!!!!!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

FYSB said: Though it's not very secure to use your phone number as your own lock code. Isn't that kinda like using your birthdate?

Y'know, Spaceballs was just on TV last night.

"1 2 3 4 5? That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!"

Codysmom said...

Wow, you leave for a little while and look what happens:)

the combination for my luggage is 0000

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

the combination for my luggage is 0000

No no no, it's "Aaaaauuuugggghhhh" from the back of the throat.

;) feeling punchy, it's almost time to go home.

Codysmom said...

:)

Codysmom said...

FYSB said...
What if Talbot lied and he's not Talbot at all but Mullins posing as Talbot?

Ok, here's another scenario to make you brain hurt (just my payback for you having the cute guy)...

How about if Talbot is Peter Talbot's brother and he is on a revenge vendetta looking for Cooper? He has a lot of money (his family is worth over 200 million) and is conducting his own search. He finds out about Cooper's "accident", but not only was Cooper's body not there, the only lead he got is a piece of paper he found at the scene of the accident with the Maxwell Group/ Widmore logo on it. Talbot hires a PI go to their main offices in NYC and somehow infiltrate the company to find out more. The PI's name is A Mullins. He finds out about Cooper's "accident" and the fact that he has been sent to what they call "The Black Rock". Mullins copies a lot of top secret papers, sticks them in his briefcase and reports to Talbot that this is his best chance of finding Cooper. Now Talbot has the info on the trip claiming to be for the "salvaging" of the Black Rock and decides to pose as a Mawell guy and gets on the Christiane 1 first. My guy, Ockham; all he needs to hear is that the man from Maxwell is there (with money) and they're off....

Capcom said...

LOL FYSB! I have a feeling that we are going to be saying "ZOINKS!" too. :o)

maven said...

WOW: I leave for a few hours and you guys go crazy! And we get the good ole comment-posting! And we get a new word: FRECKAGE! (Thanks, Shell).

I'm going to re-read everything and put in my two cents later...

Twinkle said...

It has been a good day. :-) Now we need...more...info....

Shell: How about Hansmore?

FYSB said...

Wow, codysmom, you are on a roll! Remind me never to try and steal your boyfriend in real life!

Here's one for ya, capcom....Jinkies!

maven said...

Everyone is coming up with interesting scenarios as to how this is going to play out. Keep those creative juices flowing!

I do believe the site for Allied Marine Merchants of Copenhagen has been ruled OOG. The dates were recently changed from 2006 to 2004, most likely by the creator. As much as we'd like the freighter to be HA, I don't know how it got to 2004 from 2006. Even if time moves strangely...

Ben and Richard Alpert and the Hostiles feel they're protecting the island from the "bad guys" who probably want to exploit it (or just build a big resort!) So anyone who has that agenda would be the bad guys.

The ageless Richard has to have something to do with the Black Rock and it's descendents that maybe integrated with the natives from the Temple and 4-toed statue. Maybe Widmore/Maxwell want the Black Rock because it's a Fountain of Youth. LOL

I don't think that the Christiane I is Penny's boat. We saw Penny in an office setting with Charlie. I still believe that Talbot is the frontman for the syndicate from Widmore/Maxwell and they are setting Sam up to find the freckage.

The freighter is a set up to have the Losties and Desmond think it's from Penny. The picture of Penny/Desmond was planted on Naomi as proof.

Penny had to have used some of Daddy's communication equipment and tracking devices. I don't think she's that wealthy in her own right. Daddy was probably watching everything she did all along. Remember, he wanted her and Desmond to stay apart.

Twinkle said...

So what's Widmore/Maxwell? Wixmell? Maxmore? lol!

shellma said...

Twinkle said...
It has been a good day. :-) Now we need...more...info....

Shell: How about Hansmore?
I like it Twinkle!!

shellma said...

Hansmaxmore?
Sheesh....too long...

Codysmom said...

maven said...
Everyone is coming up with interesting scenarios as to how this is going to play out. Keep those creative juices flowing!

Let's just hope we don't get "Ralphied" (remember that one?)

twinkle, personally I like Maxmore!

fysb, LOL! Actually, did you notice how blue Ockham's eyes are? Just ignore the bald head and yellow teeth and you'll see what I see:)

maven said...

I vote for Widwell.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I've always thought the Richard was a pure island native, descendent of the four toe people.
But I guess he could come from an island native black rock combination.

Codysmom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FYSB said...

LSHNEMB, codysmom! Are you trying the old Tom Sawyer Whitewashing Scam on me?

Codysmom said...

LOL, fysb.. need help cleaning that up?

And, no, I have no reason to scam. I have every reason to be satisfied (really, really satisfied). I could go on, but... not here....

Fenris said...

Hi all. Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in about the time line and stuff.

I think that the experience was written before the strike, but they almost canned it because of it, as they didn't want to do another ARG and then not have the series kick off on schedule as it would be a waste of publicity.

So they had it on hold, but then when they had the series confirmed as going ahead (albeit for 8 episodes only) they decided to do the arg anyway. This caused the discrepancy between the supposed in game start date of Dec 30th and the currently referenced in game date of some time before christmas.

Simple as that. The game time doesn't remotely relate to real time, but they had to put a real date (at least day/month) on the websites so that we would know when the thing started. A bit of a cock up, but we are fairly detached from the events this time so it's not a biggie.

Hi everyone btw, sorry I've not been keeping up with comments so far this week. I'm just about keeping up with the arg itself! Lol.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Like the avatar codysmom!

Codysmom said...

Thanks, sayid'sgirl!

Interesting, fenris... thanks.

shellma said...

FYSB....Codysmom....
NO FIGHTING!!! Lol
how bout Richard Alpert...

Richard The Hottie

shellma said...

Fenny...still only 8 episodes???

Sayid'sgirl said...

New email.

Fenris said...

As far as I am aware Shell. With the writers strike still going.

Fenris said...

Looks like some letters on the email are in a different typeface. Going a bit Trent Reznor.

Codysmom said...

smaller letters:

A S B B C F C ?????

Sayid'sgirl said...

codysmom
I got A A B B C F
Which sounds like musical notes to me. But if they are I wouldn't know what it means.
Of course I could be wrong about the letters. I'll take another look.

Codysmom said...

SORRY,

A A B B C F C

Did you scroll down in the e-mail? I like your idea of musical notes.

Ange said...

FYI, I am here...Fenris just went to bed. I am making a new post, be with you shortly.

shellma said...

I have 3 emails...anybody else?

Codysmom said...

I just e-mailed oceanic conspiracies....

Finally I'm here when something is new!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Thanks codysmom
I thought I did the hand must not have been there when I scrolled it.

Codysmom said...

Well, there were 19 and now 23 total e-mails...so 4 new ones

maven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
shellma said...

Yes...4 emails. Sorry.

Codysmom said...

ange, do you want screencaps of the new e-mails?

shellma said...

Might wanna do that since they're likely to VANISH!!

maven said...

I see A A B B C F C.

There are 23 emails listed for me.

maven said...

I guess Sam felt the heat from us all that he should get in touch with dear old Mum finally! Hope Tracey let's Mum know that Sam's okay (for now).

maven said...

Could those letters pertain to numbers 1 1 2 2 3 7? Coordinates or a date?

Codysmom said...

I like your coordinates idea, maven

Ange said...

New Post! Thanks Codysmom :D

maven said...

They might go with 11.1784 we got from the previous email. I'm not good at plotting. I'll let you guys deal with that. LOL

Sayid'sgirl said...

maven
I was thinking coordinates too.
But I wasn't sure how the letters should be converted.

lostgrrl said...

I just want to thank all who maintain this blog for doing a fantastic job! Its really clear and easy to follow...I read carefully through the first five pages to catch up on the Game in its second week. Hopefully I might be able to contribute something somewhere along the line ;)

Kudos to you!!!

LostGrrl