Tonight's update gives us 4 new e-mails: In Sam's Inbox we find:
- Subject: invitation Sender: Ian and Pam- They are asking Sam to stay with them sometime. They're thinking of him as his anniversary approaches and they offer to help him through it as a family. (Are these Sonya's parents?)
- Subject: no subject Sender: unknown The e-mail is a string of letters A A B B C F C which appear in slightly smaller font than the rest and with a small space after them.
In Sam's Sent Box we find:
- Subject: Invitation Recipient: Ian and Pam- Sam replies to their mail telling them he is out of the country, but that he is thinking of them. He goes on to say that things have been rough and he will get in touch upon his return sometime after the New Year.
- Subject: Mother Recipient: Tracey R- Sam writes to Tracey telling her that Mum is worried about him. He thinks he'll be away longer than he thought and that call reception on the ship is "dodgy". He wants her to call Mum and let her know he is okay, but that he won't be home for Christmas.
Super sleuths Maven and Shellma in comments figured out that by replacing the letters A A B B C F C with corresponding letters of the alphabet (A=1 B=2, etc) you get the number 112.2363. Combine that with the number from the first round of e-mails (-11.1784) and you get coordinates for the Sunda Trench.
So it seems that Sam's family and friends (other than Tracey R. and his thousands of Facebook and MySpace friends) have no idea that he is out of the country.
180 comments:
First!
They might go with 11.1784 we got from the previous email. I'm not good at plotting. I'll let you guys deal with that. LOL
I brought this over from the last post.
maven
I was thinking coordinates too.
But I wasn't sure how the letters should be converted.
Wonder why Ian and Pam aren't on Sam's Facebook or MySpace. They seem to have not idea where he is. They could be Sonya's parents.
We're having time problems again. Oceanic went live Dec 31st. But it's been mentioned a few times (by Ockham and the current email to Tracey for his Mum) the Christmas hasn't occurred yet.
Wonder if those numbers are the coordinates from Penny?
The Oceanic website went live in real time.
But have they said in the game when Oceanic gave up the search?
Hi all - I'm mostly a lurker, but wanted to mention something I noticed and haven't seen mentioned here. I apologize if it was mentioned previously and I missed it, you're all so good at proposing these theories, it's almost more fun to read your theories than it is to play the game.
Anyway, in reference to the comment on the previous post about how we keep being reminded that the Black Rock headed out East instead of West - the logo on the Maxwell Group website has East and West backwards. Also, the second degree number is wrong - it should be 60 but it says 75. Maybe this is the reason the Black Rock headed out in the wrong direction - but they didn't know it until they crashed.
Thoughts anyone - or has this already been hashed out somewhere else?
Thanks for your patience with this lurker!!
Wow, I got mentioned on the front page.... cool...
Fenris mentioned a bit about the problematic timing in the last post, I think.
So...are you guys thinking A=1, B=2...ect?
Kirsten: Congrats on de-lurking! The East-West reversal on the Maxwell logo has been mentioned. The logo was apparently lifted from stock footage
Shell: That's what I used. Pretty simple.
Isn't that too many numbers, though?
kirsten
I have thought something along those lines.
That they ran into some electromagnetic area and got turned around and "lost".
thanks maven! I should have known all the experts here had seen that already... oh well
I have it as 1122373. The previous numbers were 111784. So there is one extra number. I don't know how they translate into coordinated (or if they even do)!
Ok, so if i was putting those coordinates into google earth, how would i do it? N??? W????, or what?
Hi Gang, I changed the pic on the front page to a little photoshopped number I whipped up with the second string of numbers...so you can see the whole mail, and click on it to make it bigger.
Thanks for the mail Cody's Mom...so front page worthy :D.
I have tried inputting the letters A A B B C F C into a Binary Translator but I don't see anything. Anyone care to look?
Hi Kristen! I think that was discussed a little bit a few posts back, but it's good to be reminded that we do indeed have weird compass things going on and that we do need to keep that in mind along with the time irregularities. Don't be a lurker...we love comments!
Sorry. That should be 1122363.
Oh, yeah!!!! GOT IT!!!!
-11.1784, 112.2363
BINGO>>>>>>>.
Sunda Trench!!!
Cool job, Ange!
Shell: Well, if these are coordinates for the Sunda Trench...tell us something we don't know!
So who is sending this stuff to him and what will be there? I guess the freckage....
I don't think Sam will find the island.
Sorry if that came off snippy. It wasn't meant for you...for TPTB!
It's ok....
*snif*
J/K
Do we think that Sam will give these coordinates to Capt. Ockham or Talbot (even he ever figures it out)?
I think he'll sneak in and use the equipment to see where it is.
Anyway...
Going to bed. I'm beat. See you all in the morning!
Night, Shell! :)
Good job ya'll!!!! TTY tomorrow...
xxoo
g'nite!
OK, so I google mapped it and yes, sunda trench...
Nighty night, all!
Completely off topic, and probably really old news, but I love that the websites on Sam's computer have changed from "findoutinfo.com" to "findoutpedia.com" since *someone* bought the domain name. Nice work.
Main page updated with a map...thanks Maven and Shell. Stop finding stuff, I'm tuckered out! :D J/K. GREAT JOB gang!
Excellent thinking and deducing Maven and Shellma!!!
Thanks for keeping us (even when we just lurk) all on our toes!
The coordinates, how big a grid would that give you? Could it be a relatively narrow space, say 80 km (or whatever it was Naomi claimed about the freighter) and that once you were in it you weren't in it anymore, but instead you'd crossed over to Island space?
I guess conversely you could enter an area emitting a large electromagnetic pulse and could then end up in these coordinates?
Great work everyone! I am DYING to find out what is in the Sunda Trench!
Oh and Maven, I bet you're relieved that Sam has asked Tracey to contact his mum. :)
Thanks everyone (and Ange). Well, I guess the only thing we're going to find at those coordinates would be the freckage. Wonder if Sam will figure it out and also know how to get the ship there. Unless he confides in Capt. Ockham or Talbot.
Patch: Finally, Sam thought of his Mum. Now...why doesn't my son call me? LOL
LOL Maven, the age old question, eh?
Good work Maven and Shell! I wonder if it is Penny that is sending Sam these "unknown" emails. The first one said it was an old friend of Sonya. Why so secretive? I wonder if there is any other reason someone might want Sam going on the Christiane 1.
Seems this Ange ghost is after me again. Sheeesh. It is automatically signing me in as that when I restart Firefox. I have no access to the profile either. Does anyone here know how to turn that off, or fix it? Thanks!
I don't even know why Penny would want Sam on the Christiane I. Could she just have felt sorry for him after seeing him on the telly? Or did she think she had found someone who could be her "surrogate" in her search for Desmond (so Daddy wouldn't stop her)?
Yeah, I was thinking that too Maven. Unless Penny somehow knows Sonya. Who is this person that wants Sam to find Sonya so badly, or do they?
I have no idea how to fix your problem, Jess/Ange!
The coordinates put the "x" south of Bali, off the coast...just like Naomi said.
Where did Cooper say the freckage was again? In the Pacific? You don't think it's possible there are more than one freckages do you?
good work guys!
Patch, I just saw your avatar... ~sigh~
Actually I quite like that idea. lol The plane and it's occupants were somehow duplicated once or twice or possibly more times. One plane ends up on the island, one in the Pacific, one in the Indian Ocean. At least one set of Lostie clones are dead in the Sunda Trench, and probably another set in the Pacific if Cooper is right.
I'm not sure where I'm going here, (probably nowhere!) lol, but some things seem to be stuck in a loop such as the early radio broadcasts we've heard being repeated at a later time than the original broadcast, (ie: Glenn Miller and the Amelia Earhart news, Maybe they are being repeated on a regular basis, maybe somehow the crash is too.
Ok, ( really don't know where I'm going here, just brain-waffling, but if we accept that both Naomi and Cooper are telling the truth, that would mean there are at least three planes that crashed. :)
Carol, Oh yeah! :)
Patch, I just had to look up (thankyou transcripts at Lostpedia) exactly what Cooper said. I had forgotten that both Naomi and Cooper state the crash location in the same episode) and Cooper says it's at the bottom of the Pacific. Naomi gives a few more details, off the coast of Bali in a tench yadda yadda yadda. Interesting suggestion that they both believe they are telling the truth... and the copies reminds me of a Red Dwarf episode where they muck around with a transporter (I'm sure that's what it was) and turn it into a replicator (as a means of extending their meagre supplies). However, the replications aren't the same as the original. One is perfect, the other equally flawed (sweet juicy strawberry compared to grub-riddled strawberry). Then of course it backfires and replicates the ship and we end up with Rimmer in torn fishnets...
*LMAO* I remember that episode! Maybe that's why the idea of duplication was swimming around in my head.
so which strawberry was Sawyer comparing Kate to???
Lol, which brings up the question. Will one of the wreckages have a Hurley in fishnets.
More seriously though if people are dying and being duplicated is anyone we think of as dead, actually dead?
Yay, I'm back on to the Christian Shepard train again! Because they said he's definetly dead, but now that no longer means he's definetly not alive as well!
Even more seriously, I would assume that Sam won't take anoter two episodes to figure out what we already know and get the ship to that location. Likelyhood is we will have at least one more chapter after they get to this location (assuming he figures it out either by the video diary or at the start of next weeks episode).
Hi Fenris! :)
In all seriousness I am hanging out for Hurley in fishnets! *lol*
Maybe tomorrow Sam will find the username and password to The Maxwell Group. I'm very interested to see that site, as well as finding out what's under the Sunda Trench.
Night-night from me.
Congratulations to our super sleuths Maven and Shellma.
Oh and Richard...take your shoes off.
Yes good job maven and shellma.
I was trying to make it more complicated than it needed to be.
Maybe that's why the Captain's name is Ockham. :) KISS. (keep it simple stupid)
BTW theat KISS was meant for me not you guys.
Let me get this straight: Naomi talked about wreckage in the Sunda trench, and Cooper said the plane was found at the bottom of the Pacific...if they are both right, then would Naomi be from a different timeline than Cooper? Is the Island pulling from different possible timelines, like some sort of nexus, where there's a convergence of possibilities? Talk about crisis of infinite earths!
Then perhaps the reason Jack needs to go back to the Island is so he can get back to his own timeline, and maybe in the FF his father had not gone to Australia and was still alive. Jack was in the wrong timeline.
Oh my.
(btw, I love the term "freckage". Genius!)
Morning all!!
Thanks guys, but really it was nothing. Mav and I just figured it out *first*. (You can cliam genious super sleuth if you want to Mav! ;) )
This morning, what's bothering me are these loose ends that seem not to fit in anywhere.
The manifest: Why would Sam have details on JUST THOSE PEOPLE?
Peeny's book: What is that even for? Maybe just to let us know it's Penny's boat?
Ahhh....
I guess eventually we will get all the answers like we did in TLE. Not to say it'll get us anywhere with the show.....
I've been thinking about Naomi and Cooper's stories. Cooper said that the plane was found at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Naomi said was found in a trench 4 miles deep off the coast of Bali. I don't think she mentioned the Indian Ocean.
I did some searching around and I found this on a resort website.
The island of Bali is part of the Republic of Indonesia. Bali is well known as a paradise island with thousand gods, thousand temples and a thousand dances. The geographical location is the Pacific Ocean, just below the equatorial line on latitude 8 degree south and longitude 115 degree east. The island is considered to be the most attractive Asian island to visitors worldwide!
So if this is the case maybe they were both right.
That's not accurate, to my understanding. The Indian Ocean covers the area south of Indonesia, and as far east as East Timor.
There's a Bali island in Papua New Guinea. That would be in the Pacific.
Kyle
That was my belief too. That Bali was in the Indian Ocean. So I thought maybe one coastline was in the Pacific Ocean. Looking at a map one coast of Austraila seems to be in the Indian Ocean but I think it's considered to be in the Pacific.
That's what started me searching trying to find out.
And every resort website talks about views of the Pacific ocean or boat tours of the Pacific ocean.
Then I found the quote from my last post. Here are some pictures from that website. It looks to me that they are talking about the Bali we mean and not the one in Papau New Guinea.
here
here
That's goofy. I did find a number of resort sites that refer to spectacular Indian Ocean views, but I don't doubt that either A) other resort websites aren't proofread very well, B) the resort operators are mistaken, or C) "Pacific" sells better than "Indian."
They probably do do boat tours of the Pacific. It just takes a while to get there.
I think the contradiction between Cooper's and Naomi's accounts is meaningful for the differences in accounts, not for potential similarity.
With a nod to Miss South Carolina, I think it's possible that many Americans don't know much about the Indian Ocean and consider anything to the left of the country "Pacific" and right of the country "Atlantic". Cuz there are a lot of underprivileged kids and con men who don't have access to maps. Such as.
You're probably right Kyle. I'm generally almost always wrong. But I keep trying. Thanks
"Such as"....you kill me FSYB. :-D
Morning all! Thanks for all the kudos for Shell and me. Just lucky guesses made rapidly! LOL
FYSB: Agree with you that most people just think there are two oceans in the world: Pacific and Atlantic. Also, Cooper happened to be under a lot of stress at the time he was telling the news story about the wreckage. I know we fans are sticklers for details, but I think Cooper was just vaguely remembering the details of where the wreckage was found. All he cared about was that his son was finally dead!
I wonder if we will get anything today, or if it will just be tonights update...
Good Afternoon, great coversation! I tend to agree with Kyle in that I think the inconsistencies with Naomi and Cooper are deliberate and designed to lead us somewhere.
I've been thinking about the coordinates that we got from the proported Maxwell e-mails. They give us a spot, right on the map, right in the area Sam is going to. So I am wondering, HOW DOES SAM KNOW WHERE TO GO? I mean last we knew Sam was confused by the random unknown e-mails he's been getting and can't make sense of them. We've done that for him, but who's gonna tell him? Quick...someone get on MySpace or Facebook and tell him where to look. He looks tired. I think things like his 3am shift and the magnetism are going to his head! But really, are we supposed to participate here or just hope he figures it out on his own, and finds a way to get to -11.1784, 112.2363?
Shell: HI! It seems pretty consistent that even if we do get unscheduled stuff, it comes at 9 pm even if it's not on the count down clock...so my guess nothing until tonight.
PS: FYSB you made my say with your such as's!
Okay, Ange, I did it! Here's what I posted on Sam's MySpace comments:
Sam: We've figured out what those two strange emails you got were. They contained coordinates: -11.1784 and 112.2363. That is a location south off the coast of Bali in the Sunda Trench. Someone wants you to go there...maybe there are answers there for what happened to Sonya. Get Captain Ockham to put those coordinates into the Christiane I's locater and high-tail over there! Good luck!
Sheesh! Lets try that again.
I have been wondering what the point is of giving Sam the coordinates as well. It doesn't seem as though he would have any say so in the matter anyway. Also, why wouldn't Talbot have the coordinates already.
Amused2bhere said:Then perhaps the reason Jack needs to go back to the Island is so he can get back to his own timeline, and maybe in the FF his father had not gone to Australia and was still alive. Jack was in the wrong timeline.
That dawned on me during the book club. It makes so much sense....it is just hard to justify it "scientifically". But then again, didn't the writers verify that Desmond had traveled in time? I get confused as to who said what sometimes. LOL!
I already wrote the co-ordinates on his wall on facebook. Lol. Not that I expect any communication with our protagonist to even remotely work or lead somewhere. But what the heck, doesn't hurt to try. Lol.
Hooray super sleuth Maven and your Myspace skills hehe!
Jess: Talbot most likely has those coordinates as well. If they're from Penny's Arctic Station post, Daddy Widmore must know about it too. He keeps close tabs on his little girl! So with Widmore being behind Maxwell, Talbot would have those coordinates...if those coordinates are for the island. But, if those coordinates are for the freckage, we know Talbot would have them, because his syndicate might be behind the whole set-up, and they're just using Sam as part of their evil coverup.
Sam hasn't logged onto MySpace since the 13th. It's fun to play along though! :)
I just wanted to throw this out there for everyone. We got an email from Mik M. (If this is someone I know as a different user name, let me know.)
Apparently, he/she found that the 259 area code from Talbot's cell phone is from Canada. Ange and I have searched and can only come up with Zanzibar. Even that is exactly the same. Has anyone else looked into that?
Also, Mik M referenced this string of letters:
egrg eqrhrtnm
and suggested dropping letters to get a name.
The only place I could find anything about these letters was in comments at Darkufo.
Supposedly they are repeated in one of the emails that Sam received.
Does anyone know something else about this?
Maven - I agree about Talbot and the coordinates for sure. Why do you think someone is sending coordinates to Sam?
jess4ua
I read somewhere that the area code was from Canada it may have been here in a previous post.
I did see that conversation on the letters on Dark's site but didn't really read it.
If they are talking about the first email the first thing my daughter said was there was a pattern in the letters. She plays along with me.
I did look around a little on the 259 area code but didn't find anything maybe I'll look again.
I'm not really sure, Jess. There's two ways this could go:
One - Penny gave the coordinates to Sam since she saw him on the telly very distraught over Oceanic's decision to cease looking for 815. Are they coordinates she got from the guys monitoring in the ice station? If so, they would be for the island. Maybe Penny is being closely watched by her Daddy and needs to get someone else involved to get the word out.
Or Scenario No. Two: Those coordinates are for the freckage. And the "syndicate" needs someone to "find" the freckage to get everyone off it's back and divert attention from the island. Sam would fill that bill again, since he's a distraught friend of one of the people on 815, and won't shut up. So Sam is being lead by Talbot and the syndicate to "accidently" locate the freckage under the cover of a salvage ship looking for a shipwreck.
Canadian area codes don't seem to include 259. The other problem is there's only 6 digits after the 259. I did a google search that said 259 is an exchange in the 289 area code which would be in Oakville, Ontario, Canada, but if that's what it's referring too there would only be 4 digits after the 259. Further, looking at Oakville Ontario's website that info. doesn't appear to be correct. It says their area code is 905.
I still think Mittelos is leading Sam astray and has hacked The Maxwell Group's email to aid them. They knew Maxwell/Widmore was looking for the Black Rock and don't want them to find it since it's on the Island. They get Sam onto the Christiane1 and lead him to the freckage which causes worldwide pandemonium and hopefully gets Maxwell off the trail of the Black Rock's real locale while they deal with finding "815." I think Penny's book is on the boat because at some point in the past she was using the boat to look for Desmond and left it there.
I didn't realize from just poking around Lostpedia that there was a difference between what Naomi and Cooper said about the crash other than Cooper was less specific. Does anyone have the link to that transcript or can copy and paste exactly what they said into the comments?
As for the phone numbers, could it include a country code? Doesn't seem formatted for that to me, but I'm not familiar with international calling. It was interesting that all the calls were in the same code. I also wonder what Talbot's defaults for his cell are. For instance I can dial a number without the area code if it is local because my phone knows my local code. Or maybe we've gotten all there is to get from the phone numbers?
From Episode 3.19 The Brig
Naomi: No, they found the entire plane off the coast of Bali, in an ocean trench 4 miles deep. They sent down cameras and these little robots to survey the wreck. The bodies were all there.
Naomi: My company was hired by a woman named Penelope Widmore. I don't know why. I never met her. She gave us a set of coordinates. We've been conducting a differential GPS grid search ever since.
Naomi: Island? We were given coordinates in the middle of the bloody ocean. We thought it was a fool's errand...till 3 days ago. I was flying back for the ship when all the sudden the clouds cleared and I saw land. The instruments started spinning. I realized I was going down, so I grabbed my chute and I bailed.
Anthony: Island? [Chuckles] Okay. I'm driving down I-10 through Tallahassee when, Bam! Somebody slams into the back of my car. I go right into the divider at 70 miles an hour. The next thing I know, the paramedics are strapping me to a gurney, stuffing me in the back of an ambulance, and 1 of them actually smiles at me as he pops the IV in my arm. And then, nothing. Just black. The next thing I know I wake up in a dark room, tied up, gag in my mouth, and when the door opens, I'm looking up at the same man I threw out a window, John Locke. My dead son. [Chuckles]
Anthony: No, he survived that, but it paralyzed him...permanently. He's dead because the plane he was flying on crashed in the Pacific.
Anthony: They found your plane on the bottom of the ocean. One minute I'm in a car wreck and the next minute I'm in a pirate ship in the middle of the jungle? If this isn't hell, friend, then where are we?
Twinkle said :Or maybe we've gotten all there is to get from the phone numbers?
That is what I am thinking, but I didn't want to dismiss it just in case there is another clue there.
Maven - I like scenario 2. That would help explain the use of "salvaging the Black Rock" as a cover. That being said in reference to previous discussions about doubting they are really searching for the Black Rock.
If the people who fake the wreckage of 815 are the same people who sent the freighter to Lost island, what implications does that have?
Well, there'd be no incentive for the freighter people to rescue any of the 815 Losties because the world would all think they were dead. If any of them did show up in the real world, they could just claim, "Isn't it a miracle! We thought they were all dead but we found these few on a small island!"
What kind of a deal with the devil will Jack and Kate and ? have to make in order to get off the island under those circumstances? They'd have absolutely no leverage in that situation because they can't say, "Well, the world is looking for us." They'd have no face cards and all the aces would be held by the freighter people. Dude! Whatever J,K, and ? would have to do or give up in order to get off the island would definitely be enough to cause the kind of guilt Jack showed in the season finale.
According to Wikipedia 259 was reserved for Zanzibar which is an Island in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Tanzania in East Africa, but it was never implemented and instead to call Zanzibar you use 255 which is Tanzania's code.
Memphish - I find it interesting that Naomi says she doesn't know Penny or why she was hired. Seems to me like they have quite a plan for the island. Or maybe Naomi was just sorta like bait, and really doesn't know what is going on.
memphish: Thank you! The differences don't seem significant enough to me. Still, maybe you're right. On the other hand, since Naomi is lying about the Penelope part, she could just as easily be lying about the freckage part.
Maybe they meant for the freckage to be off the coast of Bali but something wrong and it ended up somewhere else? We'll see. I still this this ARG/hunt for the Black Rock will be about turning up the freckage.
Naomi: My company was hired by a woman named Penelope Widmore. I don't know why. I never met her. She gave us a set of coordinates.
See....now I'm confused again...
If Penny hired the freighter....who hired the ChristianeI?????
ugh..my head hurts!!
memphish said...I think Penny's book is on the boat because at some point in the past she was using the boat to look for Desmond and left it there.
I agree, and I think it's there to show that maybe she has stayed in the cabin Sam is in now, but also to make us scurry around trying to connect Sam and Penny.
memphish said...259 was reserved for Zanzibar which is an Island in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Tanzania in East Africa, but it was never implemented
I found that too on the international directory page the other day. I wonder if this isn't like the 020 on Penny's number that is basically the equivalent of a 555 call but in the UK? So we don't go calling all the phone numbers in Talbot's log. LOL I think with all the fake web sites and fake numbers they are trying to say ahead of our enthusiam!
jess said...Or maybe Naomi was just sorta like bait, and really doesn't know what is going on
Could Naomi be one of Ben or Jacob's people sent to look like she's rescuing the Losties, when really that's what their intention was all along?
Here's an interesting factoid. If Naomi is talking about Autonomous Underwater Vehicles (little robots and cameras), they don't go deep enough to get to the bottom of a 4 mile trench. If she's talking about Remote Operated Vehicles, then they could get that far down, but it would be pretty close to max depth. There aren't very many submersibles that can make it that deep.
Naomi claims she was hired by Penelope and has a picture of Penny and Desmond to "prove" it (right?). But Charlie then talks to Penny from the Looking Glass and finds out Naomi is lying. Penny knows nothing of the boat.
ah, the morning catch up...
I agree with those who have commented that Sam having these coordinates doesn't really do him any good... Talbot's not going to suddenly order Ockham to abandon their grid on Sam's say so.
As to this whole Bali/Indian/Pacific thing... I'm cutting out two paragraphs here but I'll just go to the summary... as Ange suggested, it's us fans who are sticklers for detail and yes, the mere fact that their versions are conflicting is intentional in my view (it was in the same episode, I don't think we are meant to miss it!), it's just frustrating at the moment not knowing why they are conflicting.
I think the wild goose chase on the country/region of those phone numbers is as Ange said, an unofficial international 555.
shellma, Naomi says Penny hired her. Penny says she doesn't know of any Naomi. I'm more inclined to believe Penny (but as far as boats go all Penny says is that she isn't on a boat... now you would think that if she had given coordinates to a bunch of people to go out on a boat to look for Desmond she'd think of that rather than whether she herself was on a boat, but anyway...) but if she'd hired some people to go to those coordinates she may not know the names of all those involved. Just playing devils advocate, though I think if I was looking for someone and didn't want others (Daddy) to know I'd be checking out anyone that was part of doing the job
What benefit could come of giving Sam the coordinates in the Sunda Trench of where the Christiane 1 will find whatever it is they will find, Lost island or the freckage?
Well,giving him the coordinates ahead of time will tell him that someone knew it was there already and that he would find it. If I were Sam and the Christiane 1 found the freckage of 815 right where the coordinates I had already received in an e-mail told me something would be, it would serve to make me suspicious of that freckage. Hmm....
Maven - The problem I have with scenario 2 is that with Oceanic declaring the search over, everyone will be declared dead anyway so that families can collect the insurance money and move on. It's not uncommon for wreckage to not be found and as far as we know at the moment the only person asking questions about 815 is Sam himself. It seems an awful lot of effort to go to just to keep Sam quiet. It also poses the question, who outside of the island knows that 815 crashed there? I can only think of the Others on that count.
Naomi's people obviously knew Desmond was there, but that was it. If her people had known 815 was there she could have had a more convincing story ready involving them rather then telling them they are all dead.
The other part of that which is a problem is that currently everything we have seen suggests the island is in that area, but given Sam knew absolutly zero about it all and that the flight plan of 815 goes nowhere near the Sunda Trench, it seems it would cause more harm to run him on this wild goose chase then to just leave him to burn out or simply knock him off.
Now option 1 is intreging, but where this seems to be set we have no reason to believe Penny knows anything about 815 herself at the point this is set. It would only make sense if this is actually set after the end of season 3, then she may be looking for the plane and island herself. But then why send Sam? I don't know.
Then again, if there are duplicates, so it's not actually a freckage, maybe she did know about 815 having found the wreckage while searching for Desmond, but because she had to do it all bellow her fathers radar she couldn't tell anyone. The Black Rock search may be just because Mr.Widmore likes his boats. But then there are quite a few co-incidences to deal with there given the ties with Widmore and Hanso.
-"What boat?"
--"Your boat, 80 miles off shore. Naomi parachuted."
-"I'm not on a boat. Who's Naomi?"
I just don't think this is Penny mincing words. I think this is Penny being genuine. I don't think she had anything to do with the freighter.
Whether she was at one time a passenger on the Christiane I is another matter entirely, but that would have had to be sufficiently in the past for her to not think of it right away.
If she was on that transmitting frequency, she was looking for something. It wasn't like she picked up her phone and Charlie was all of a sudden yelling at her on it.
Refresh my memory...does Penny discount the idea that she has a boat of her own or does she just tell us that Naomi's boat isn't hers?
The idea of the freckage is making my head hurt. What's the point of bringing it up twice when the last ep of the season shows that Jack and Kate got off the island? Everyone will have found out about the freckageness of the freckage, thereby negating the need/usefulness of the freckage.
Unless the promoters of the freckage were just trying to buy time and discourage searchers, realizing that because multiple people were trying to find the island, they could distract them with said freckage. Classic misdirection?
Fenris: Maybe you've already said and I missed it, but what is your favorite theory about what's happening in the ARG and how it ties in with the show?
I suppose, fysb, that the fakers of the wreckage could claim that a couple people managed to escape before the plane sank. But, yes, a couple survivors do conjure up questions.
The plane being duplicated and landing in two or three places (Lost island, Sunda Trench, and the Pacific) makes my head hurt! :-)
Refresh my memory...
Lift up your eyes, and look North, FYSB.
; )
twinkle, I was thinking the same thing about Sam being suspiscious of being led to the freckage.
I know I have kind of rambled about theories, as I try and look at things from all POV, but I really don't think Penny has anything to do with the freighter OR the Christiane I's current activities. Hmm, unless (yes, here I go again) Penny becomes aware of the falvage and wants someone to know it's not real. Still, I doubt it's Penny.
Twinkle, Naomi says "The bodies were all there". If there are bodies on the freckage to account for everyone, then it would kinda make it hard for someone to then say that a few must've escaped (and miles and miles away to boot)
Kyle, you are too funny!
I still can't understand why finding freckage in the Sunda Trench would satisfy the relatives though and maybe this is the key. If my loved one were on 815 and they disappeared en route from Sydney to LA and the airline searched and didn't find anything between Sydney and LA I'd be sad, but move on because there's nothing between Sydney and LA but water basically.
But if my loved one's body suddenly turned up off the coast of Bali I'd start raising a ruckus because why the heck was the plane crashing NW of Sydney instead of NE of Sydney? Now I need more of an explanation than simple mechanical malfunction and a crash because this location makes no sense. It seems like finding 815 that far off course should re-ignite the story. Maybe that's the purpose of the person sending these emails to Sam, to keep the story from dying and run down the fakers of the freckage?
UGH...I hear ya FYSB!! It just doesn't make any sense!!
The only thing I can think of is that maybe Desmond has a FB or maybe Jack and thats where that whole "we goota go baaaaaaack" comes from?????
Sheesh who knows.
Sorry, I mean Flash Forward.
Twinkle - I'm not sure I have a favorite theory as of yet. I always try and entertain all the possibilities. But having said that:
I think they will find something, otherwise it's a bit pointless.
I don't think Naomi's boat knew about 815, unless they are just trying to mess with the Losties mind, but then that doesn't fit in with saying they will rescue them.
So I have two possibilities. The first is that there is indeed a duplicate 815 that will be found. The second is that we are missing some vital information that would give certain parties (most likely the Others) a reason to fake the wreckage and in an area that is likely close to the island. The suggest there is that someone with an interest in 815 is significantly close to finding the island. Further more it is someone they can't simply knock off.
Penny does come to mind, but as I've said I am not sure she would be looking for 815 at this stage. Instead she'd be looking for Des and his wreckage would be a lot easier to fake.
I know it's the more sci-fi option but it seems more logical at this point there is some kind of duplication scenario.
We all saw the Orchid video and we know of Hansos links with Widmore and that Maxwell is under Windores wing. So it is possible someone at Maxwell knows of the duplication technology.
What that means though and why they are sending Sam to potentially find one of the duplicates I couldn't say.
There is one other possibility, but it involves Sam joining the Lost cast which is unlikely. That would be that the co-ordinates are actually that of Naomi's boat and it is indeed Penny that has sent Sam there. But there are so many flaws with that I would call it very remote.
Cause if they are truly off the island, and it's SO hard to "get back".......
Where does that leave us for the rest of the remaining seasons??
Off Island???
No thanks for me.
well, i had tough decisions to make today at the dmv.
PRGATRY
CHUCKLZ
FIND815
SAVJOOP
FLT 815
LOSTFAN
JOOP105
LOST108
LOST815
and a few others.
ultimately, i decided on...........(drumroll please).......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................PRGATRY!!!
hahaha. i will get a "border" or what have you to go around it that will have "www.thelostcommunity.com" on it and/or "eat your joop loops" and "thank you and namaste" or maybe even "blake flakes: the choice for a better tomorrow" or something.
"valenzetti-o's by chef-boy-r-dan"???
eh. anyway.......just thought i'd update.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/chucklez3/purgatory.jpg
1/16/2008 01:21:00 PM
I don't think you have to worry about that Shell. The main character in the show is the island itself. We'll get flash forwards off the island but I don't think we will get a lot of time outside of those off the island.
Wowwwwwwww!!!
You just made my final theory Fenris!!
The Others would have been the only people to have a vested interest in making the freckage!! Point Sam to it to keep everyone away from looking elsewhere and away from the island. Point him to the freckage via emails and such... and viola!!!
End of search!!!
Except for Penny. She has coordinates to the island. I don't think that her now knowing who Naomi is is such a big deal (as Carol mentioned).
Maybe that's what Jack's tired of lying about. Maybe he knows about the freckage. And Oceanic is trying to keeping him quiet with the golden passes.
I don't know it's hard to say.
forgive me for being at work too much and if this was covered, i apologize, but........
has anyone noticed that the compass at "themaxwellgroup.com" has the "EAST" and "WEST" reversed??????
that's the only things that are reversed however.
weird.
*not knowing who Naomi is*
That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.
okay......well.....that's my quick "drive-by". i'll try to check back later.
honestly, i think we all thought that the "main character" of the show was indeed the island. no surprise hypothesis there.
however, a lot of theories right now a kinda' "broad" in eplanations. and what sucks right now is nearly ANYTHING could fit.
heck......i could theorize that giant lamps are controlling the island and are using the losties as puppets so they can fuel their generator to make "hot jell-o".
hahaha.....but seriously.....we all have legitimate theories right now. hopefully, we will start getting pieces filled in to connect the dots.
one would hope.
a few quick touches here:
michael = never left the "area" (3rd island)
locke = is key to the ultimate "end" (he's there to "direct" the future of them all..........or so the island --- or whatever, wants him to, anyway).
flash-forwards will have alternate futures based on what happens from now on, on the island (and whether or not locke can manipulate decisions).
4-toed statue.........ugh......anyone?? beuller? beuller??
smokey = (purgatory or not = harbinger of death that gives you choices that decide whether you live or die, so-to-speak).
chucklez: Yep. But there's nothing there. That logo is stock imagery, which ABC might even be using without permission (the swirl in the background is the imageseller's watermark).
sayid'sgirl: You're not the first person I've heard put forward that theory (Jack and fellow survivors forced to never discuss the crash or where they were for X amount of time afterwards). It's a good one, and I'd say it's the leading contender.
Thanks, fenris. Definitely some things to think about.
Shellma, I'm wondering if it's not the freighter that gets the Losties off? TPTB have set it up to look that way and we know how they like to turn things around on us. This season then would be about the freighter people getting stuck too and the fights that ensue between the people who want to leave and the people who are suspicious of the freighter people and the island who is trying to protect itself.
book police: i agree that there's nothing there.
just an observation. was it ever in-game??
weird.
anyhow.....
LOL, Chucklez! You really did it! I voted for PRGATRY!
My head aches with all these scenarios, different outcomes, etc.!
I don't know if this is spoilery, but from the preview that's all over the place, the people from the freighter are on the island and they tell Jack that their rescue is not their primary objective. So that leads me to believe that Naomi's story about the freckage could be sincerely given. She heard about it on the news and is shocked to find survivors of 815 on the island. We know the freighter is not Penny's boat, but the cover story about Desmond is a good one for Naomi to give whomever she encounters on the island. I really think that Daddy Widmore is behind the freighter...he's trying to continue to keep Penny and Desmond apart, and he's part of this syndicate (which have other motives for finding the island). This syndicate could include Paik and Hanso who know the history of the island and what it's potential is.
I still think the point of Find185 is to...FIND815! Otherwise, it would be called FindtheislandandgetitbackfromBen.com
In line with my theory du jour....
Maybe the Others BOUGHT Oceanic after the crash....thus the freckage, the 6's silence, ect.
I'd never thought of it that the island is the main character of the show. That's a good way to put it!
Or maybe Hanso bought Oceanic? Either way, I'm very curious about the extent of the Others resources, especially off island.
LMAO Mav!!!
Yes, there is still the lingering question..
Why was Penny looking for anomalous magnetic bursts to find her Desmond??
We still don't really know why.....
chucklez: You raise a good question. Was www.the-maxwell-group.com (the actual website with the dead login box) ever confirmed as in-game? Because the absence of the little "A Division of Widmore Industries" line is troublesome.
She may have heard of the island from her dad and Hanso. I would say she's not totally in the dark about the Lost island, hence why she was trying to access the communication equipment she talked to Charlie on.
Kyle, it is in game. The Maxwell Group site is on the same server as Find815.
Totally OT
I never thought of this until this moment, because it's happening....
(And I know the true syndrome is nothing to laugh about)
But I have termed my son's fits as:
Fakin' baby syndrome...
*da dum dum*
He's a terrible faker! Lol
Tonight's the night we usually get clue hunts isn't it?
There does seem to be a Widmore connection to the freighter in someway.
But I'm not sure it has anything to do with Desmond or Penny.
Ben seemed to be terrified about the island being found and every living person dying. He seemed to know there was a threat on the way.
And like you said maven the man says his mission isn't exactly to save the survivors. I think this is why Ben was taking he people to the temple. But I don't know what will happen once they get therer.
Weren't the Others already on the move before Mikhail reported in about Naomi's appearance? I thought they were heading to the Temple because the LOSTies had found Othersville.
I thing the Others heading to the Temple was nothing to do with Naomi's group or the Losties finding Othersville. They are on their own agenda with that. Everything else just gets in the way.
Good so they'll still go to the temple (minus Ben) and we'll get to see it!
I think they were heading towards the temple because the sky turned purple.
I think Ben knew this could create a weakness in their protection.
Once he learn of the boat he may have felt this was the threat he feared.
Or something like that anyway. :)
chucklez You are my new hero...I voted for that one too!
fenris said...I know it's the more sci-fi option but it seems more logical at this point there is some kind of duplication scenario.
Gosh, Memphish brought something like this up a while ago on TLC and because it is my favorite book ever ever I want to link back to The Time Travelers Wife. Genetic time jumpers (yeah Journeyman is kind of a rip off of it). But okay what if Ben or someone has discovered that the link between the Losties and/or the Others all have the gene.
Maybe the babies conceived on the island also have the gene and jump out of the mothers before they are born. At this point if you haven't read the book you're thinking I'm a total nut bag but bear with me...
So anyway what if we don't have duplication so much as we have multiple time jumper versions of each survivor. Although I am not sure scientifically (LOL) how you can be both dead at the bottom of the sea and jumping along in time, but I also don't get how black smoke can throw someone around, so there you have it.
Also IMHO I think Naomi is an Other...like the kind that is stationed elsewhere. In Through The Looking Glass Mikhail says he thought Bonnie and Greta were on assignment in Canada. Is there really a Canada branch of The Others or was that a total lie? If it's not, it leaves open the possibility that The Others have real world operatives and they can come into play at some point.
sayid's girl said...I think they were heading towards the temple because the sky turned purple.
I think Ben knew this could create a weakness in their protection.
Once he learn of the boat he may have felt this was the threat he feared.
Do you think he is fortified for a battle at the temple? That would be an interesting idea.
/HUGE MONSTER POST (phew!)
ange
I'm not sure if he's getting ready for battle. Maybe.
I think there is something mythilogical or mystic at the temple. Maybe something to do with Jacob or his power.
Oh I meant to include in my last post, that I think going to the temple has to with protection. I guess that could include a battle if neccessary.
Ange said: Although I am not sure scientifically (LOL) how you can be both dead at the bottom of the sea and jumping along in time,
In the book the guy was able to jump forward in time to points beyond his death and meet up with his daughter, and then of course his death was caused by an event in the past.
Where did everybody go....
:(
I'm here. Just drifting in and out of reality.
Wow, you guys are great. I go MIA for a few days (because, of course, blogger is blocked at work and home life is hectic) and all of this stuff happens. I've got a bunch of catching up to do.
I agree that there seems to be a bunch of support for duplication theory, especiallly in the light of the Orchid video and the Casimir effect.
More than one Boone and Shannon? Could Paolo and Nikki still be alive somewhere? Please, no. But more than one Sawyer, maybe one who isn't such a weasel? Sign me up!
Shellma,love your new baby avatar.
I am one of those who think that Jack,Kate, and maybe 4 additional Losties were sworn to secrecy about their fate.Jack said he was sick of all the lying.
Seeing Sam and Mr. Ocham reading all those gauges, reminded me of The Third Policeman.
Are the Others going to use a U-Haul to get Jacob and his rocking chair to the temple?
18 minutes!
Now where is everyone? I got in and finished in 11 minutes. That's got to be a record for the websites involved.
I'm done, too!
That was way too easy! Someone has to translate that paper. I think I got the gist of it, but not all of it.
My high school and little bit of college French didn't pick out anything earth shattering in the paper. I noticed there was no date on it though, darn it. Basically it says the search has been called off.
But here's an interesting question, why is there a Tunisian paper (Tunis is in North Africa on the Med.) in an Australian boat in the Indian Ocean sailing near Jakarta with Aussies and Americans on it?
Ditto, Memphish..."Where is everyone?"
Maybe one of the crew members is from Tunis.
Well I went to the abc site and all that was there was what looked like a red version of the blast door map.
There wasn't any instructions and I couldn't find anything to click on. Although I didn't search the whole screen before I decided to refresh and now I have nothing.
And what is the significance of the clue word? First I thought it was someone's measurements! LOL
I finished in record time(for me)
also.
I was expecting more.And we didn't even have to turn on the lights.
Sounds like you had a bad link Sayid's Girl. It should load a puzzle like it has in the past.
I thought of measurements too Maven!
Could be a combo to a lock. Sounds like one Locke might use on the armory door.
The puzzle is there for me again, Sayid'sgirl.
In the first part of the video before it goes to the clue hunt, there are numerous monitors full of static. Some of them are clickable, but nothing happens.
I wonder if TPT (insert extra initial /s here) added more bandwidth or if people are waiting to log on since a) you may have been spoiled as to what was next or b) you've been burned too many Wed. nights before.
Did anyone else see a woman's face reflected in the doorway of the cabin in the clue hunt? Sonia?
Those monitors are the thing we have to click this round to get the video moving again. I couldn't really understand what Sam was saying when I clicked them. I had my sound down. I assume the point is we are getting interference in this region.
There is a translation of the paper over at Dark's. Nothing earth-shattering.
did anyone else notice the picture of sonya overlaid on the door? (near the binoculars)
Well, tonight's stuff really didn't move the story ahead much, did it?
Well I went to the website instead of using the link you get with the Season 3 clue. I now know what I need to do but I still can't get the puzzle. Now I just get a black screen.
So until I can try the puzzle I probably won't comment for awhile so I can try on my own first.
Elispeights: Thanks for pointing that out. I see it now. There also is some writing above the picture. Can't make it out. Why is that there?
BTW: I'm a long time lurker on this and the lost community. Anyway, I almost did not notice it, but when I looked closer it was very clear. Thought I was just crazy!
elispeits.
yes I saw it too,went back.There is looks like the picture that was on Sam's desk.
Sayid's girl, any luck? I can't abc to load the right thing either. Dark screen or the blast door map looking thing. . .
There seems to be bleedthrough of some sort on most of the screens we see. In Talbot's cabin it was the chart.
frelling computer crashes... I completely forget what I was going to say before.
Ange, your suggestion about time travelling fetuses is interesting... creepy but interesting (maybe Locke isn't a virgin birth but a time travelled fetus!)
Now I initially thought that Ben had lied about the whereabouts of Bonnie and Greta, but considering Alpert and Ethan moved off island I guess it's not that much of a stretch for them to have something going on in Canada. Also not that much of a stretch then for some to be in Australia...
how many less-weasley-Sawyers do you think they could duplicate?
now I guess from all your comments something new is up... my progress at find815 has pretty much gone back to zero, so I'm gonna be a while. I'm guessing we get some numbers... maybe a depth? So we have the lat, long and depth to look for the freckage?
My immediate thought when I saw the French was Danielle's research team. hee hee...
My personal computer is running slower than Xmas right now. While I was waiting to get to the comment form I noticed Maven's comment about Ian and Pam not being on MySpace or Facebook. I agree with whoever said they could be Sonia's parents and therefore they probably don't have accounts at social networking sites. After all, I wouldn't but for LOST.
Good call on the French Patch. Danielle never crossed my mind.
Carol: Good thought that the new numbers might be depth. Is that the way it would be written? Or would it just be so many feet (I don't want to say the number until most of us have gotten it)?
Still can't get to the puzzle.
Sorry, Sayid'sgirl. Keep trying.
In the cabin, there's a ship's model behind the computer screen on the desk. Could that be the Black Rock? LOL
Sayid's Girl, try this link. It loads for me.
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