Friday, 25 January 2008

Chapter 4- Video Diary 4

Video Summary

Sam recaps Chapter 4 for us saying he can not pin Talbot down. He recounts the incident with Talbot and the coordinates. Sam admits that he indeed has no idea who he is dealing with. He thinks they (Maxwell) are toying with him, using coded e-mails.

He mentions the LOVE YOU MADLY mail and how he and Sonya said that to each other all the time. He feels that someone is trying to mess with his head, or spur him on. Sam misses Sonya and thinks about her all the time.

He knows he can't trust, "these people," but he feels that he needs to find The Black Rock to give them what they want. Then maybe they will give him what he wants in return.

Screen Shot of Disturbances and Helpful Links

Here are some great shots of the blips from Video Diary 4 (Thanks Jess and Fenris!). Also some links to James Clerk Maxwell's Theories written by Germain Rousseaux (thanks Jess) and Carol in comments found what appears to be the Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science where it appears the image blips from Sam's video may have come from. Oodles in comments also found James Clerk Maxwell On Physical Lines of Force that shows more of the images that look to have been used.



136 comments:

memphish said...

Great job! There's still one thing I saw in the video I haven't see a screen grab of, and I don't know how to do that. It's right as Sam's reaching to turn off the camera. There's a bunch of calculations or maybe Chinese.

pharmacopaeia said...

The first two look like they could be related to magnetic fields, no? I can't see well enough on my dodgy screen :)

memphish said...

It's up at Dark's site now. It looks like reversed equations of some sort. So what do we make of these images. At least West and East seem to be in the right place this time. Can anyone read what it says in that circle?

Fenris said...

got it. Uploading.

Fenris said...

Yeah it's up here too. :)

It's an equation for sure.

maven said...

WOW! You guys are great! I think the fifth one down would be another part of the infamous White Blip.

pharmacopaeia said...

It says direction of motion, I think.

Carol Dunstan said...

I've got 12 blips, looking closer at them now. I've seen the equation and there is reference to some theory thing but I think it's gonna take a while, there's so many to look at!

jess4ua said...

I think some of the images look like wind shear maps

Fenris said...

Aha, that sounds right Pharma. Fits with the arrow.

So question is clues or fluff?

Twinkle said...

I'm amazed because Dark's screen grabs are almost entirely different places in the video. There's a lot embedded here.

pharmacopaeia said...

One of the ones in movement looks very doppler effect-ish, but in general they seem to show the effect on a surrounding something (fluid? waves of some description?) of a body in motion.

maven said...

Could that equation be the Valenzetti Equations?

memphish said...

Someone at Dark reversed the equation, but it means nothing to me. Someone suggested it might be the Valenzetti equation, but I think it's more likely something related to this game. Apparently some pages from the work of James Maxwell are in there.

Carol Dunstan said...

hmm, Maxwell and Faraday...

Theory of Molecular Vortices

Twinkle said...

There's one screen grab with text on Sam's head and a different screen grab on DarkUFO with text that looks like it matches. I'm not so good with equations but I wonder if the text means anything if it's put together. Also it seems like several screens are puzzles waiting for the pieces to align.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Memphish, the one blip you are talking about, did it seem to have a red background with white text, because I saw that one but dont see it up there. I can't do the frame by frame thing, at least I don't know how, maybe I could if I did... lol

pharmacopaeia said...

This reminds me a little of some of the diagrams we'd use when studying spin and polarity and the like in atoms when I was studying chemistry. There's certainly something regarding orbit there.

memphish said...

Could it be the Biot-Savart Law?

maven said...

I think a lot of the white blips seems to be screaming out to be put together like a puzzle.

Fenris said...

The reversed one is in the photobucket btw.

jess4ua said...

Here it the Theory of Molecular Vortices mapped out. I think that is what the pictures on the glitches are.

Ellen said...

The fifth one down ("white blip") definitely looks like a puzzle with a picture of a face similar to the first one that someone over at Dark's unscrambled...
Wish I had better software!?:D

Carol Dunstan said...

maven, I had a similar thought as I was capping them... actually even going to the extreme of putting together caps from the various videos like we had to patch together some of those glyphs from Ninja and Speaker!

pharmacopaeia said...

And did you see the name there? Rousseaux! :D

memphish said...

Rousseaux.pdf Jess? Sounds familiar. :D

jess4ua said...

HAHAHAHA, Yeah that jumped out at me too!

jess4ua said...

Most of the images in the glitches are in that file.

oodles said...

There is a publication title hidden in the screenshots. I assume it's a science book judging from the SC part.

The
...NBUR. AND
...ICA M...
AND
...L OF SC..
FOURTH SERIES
MARCH 1861

is all I can get from three different shots (two up on the site and one I took and e-mailed in - did you get it, Ange?) There must be more.
Wow, those calculations are something else!

maven said...

Great link, Jess. But waaaay beyond me! Yeah, that Rousseaux thing was very funny. Quick...I need a mathematician!

Carol Dunstan said...

wiki has a pdf of teh whole thing, copyright has expired so I'd say taht is where it came from. At least we should eb able to get a better look at the equations

On Physical Lines of Force

If that is what jess has linked to sorry for the duplicate but my connection is stressing out at downloading two pdf's at once

maven said...

Carol: That version looks exactly where they got most of the stuff. Now...what does this all mean?

jess4ua said...

Carol - No, but a similar link...I think we need all we can get though. LOL

Maven- I am off to look at that white blip. I can't believe it showed up again!

pharmacopaeia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carol Dunstan said...

page 8 of the pdf I linked to has definately been used

oodles said...

Found the graphics!
http://www.manhattanrarebooks-science.com/maxwell.lines.of.force.htm
(see picture bottom right)

oodles said...

oops, yous were quicker :)

pharmacopaeia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sayid'sgirl said...

Could any of this have anything to do with the casmir effect?
I know it's not part of the game but who knows.

memphish said...

So we've got James Maxwell again and his work on things magnetic. So what does that mean for Sam and for that matter for the Island?

Great job everyone on finding all this stuff. Now your assignment is to summarize it into a 100-word or less paragraph that can be understood by a 3rd grader. Okay?

memphish said...

Has anyone seen the book as it looks in Oodles link on the boat?

jess4ua said...

Maven- ROFL! I can show you the pictures...

jess4ua said...

ooooops sorry, I meant Memphish

memphish said...

So is anyone else who has seen Cloverfield expecting to see Rob and Beth on one of Sam's tapes at this point?

memphish said...

I'm glad you laughed Jess. That was meant as a joke, but I'm afraid that's what it's going to take for me to get it. :D

maven said...

Memphish: LOL I'm with you! Someone please explain to me what all this means and how it relates to Sam's quest or what's going on with the island!

memphish said...

Have y'all seen this screencap? It's really there. I rewatched and paused to confirm.

Sayid'sgirl said...

memphish
how cool!

DeDJeZTeR said...

I agree, maybe a fifth grade level but third just to be on the safe side... lol

Great link Carol, Thats a lot of reading.

Fenris said...

Okay. Interesting stuff. Good work peeps.

It's 3:13am here, so I'm signing off for the night. See you all later.

memphish said...

Night Fenris. I'm leaving those science people to their homework. I'll give them the 70 hours until the story continues. I'm generous.

maven said...

I just saw that, too, Memphish. Guess we're all on the right track by digging deeper in what we're watching!

Carol Dunstan said...

gah, computer couldn't handle all the pdf's and crashed. I was trying to also express an interest in a laymans version of Maxwell's stuff because I don't think I have a hope of making sense of it! Any way, I've saved the pdf and will do my best

maven said...

Night, Fenris! I like to learn new things, but this feels too much like being in school! I'm not a math/science type! I need it very simplified! LOL

DeDJeZTeR said...

Night Fenris.

Don't let the LOST bugs bite.

Aaaaahhhh, remember the LOST Bugs, when you would wake up in the middle of the night, thinking did I miss something, Is there a new Glyph some where, and now, did we catch all those blips.... aaaahhhh.

Good times... lol

Lost 2010 said...

Those equations look like they're upside down and backward (if what I think is pi is pi) and appear to have differentials in them. If I'd been good a calculus I'd be too busy making money to play arg's..

Did someone say they're reversed in the photobucket?

Carol Dunstan said...

you know I didn't get that "thankyou" in my capping or that screen full of equations at the end, I don't think it is a case of the subtitles covering it up but if others here have seen it I'll take their word.

The screen full of equations that is on photobucket isn't back to front it's upside down

oodles said...

3:25 am
signing of as well, gotta talk to the bedbugs for a few hours

maven said...

Well, can we surmise that the Maxwell Group is dedicated to the theories of James Maxwell? How would they use electromagnetism to find the Black Rock? Or are they trying to harness to energy coming from the island for something evil? Is that why the people on the freighter have another agenda besides rescuing the survivors?

Lost 2010 said...

So what equations would have 4 pi as a constant over an over. Something to do with circles I guess.

Those diagrams look to me like the way light is bending around the island to hide it from view. And I'm guessing the equations have to do with light refraction or laminar flow or some such.

(I have no idea really, but my shot in the dark guesses are at least as accurate as the ones I work out painstakingly. In that I miss either way.)

jess4ua said...

I think the equations are Maxwells equations, but I am not positive.

Carol Dunstan said...

mods, do you want images of the screencaps with their relevant sections from the Maxwell doc? I've just found a couple more of them and I have some other screencaps too

lost2010, give me a sec and I'll find that equation. Making sense of it is a whole other matter...

Lost 2010 said...

Ampere's law has many of those same constants, it's supposed to be connected to the Maxwell equations - from wiki -


With the addition of the displacement current, Maxwell was able to postulate (correctly) that light was a form of electromagnetic wave.

DeDJeZTeR said...

No way lost 2010,

I like that idea, it's like the electromagnetic properties of the island are giving it that predator/solid snake camouflage deal. It would make total sense if these papers are talking about magnetism bending light.

Ange said...

Memphish, thanks for the heads up on the picture flip. It's fixed. G'night all.

Carol Dunstan said...

lost2010, it's the same equation that was earlier in the video, they're just showing the whole thing and repeating it 3 times. It's from the 8th page of the pdf I linked to earlier. By trying to jump into it and make sense of that page alone all I can tell you is it's about magnets...

Lost 2010 said...

carol - I think I missed your link. I'll go back and see if I can find it.

Ange said...

All links from comments are now on the main page...REALLY goodnight now.

jess4ua said...

I agree, I posted THIS link a couple of weeks ago. It is pretty interesting and I really think it is how the island is "hiding".

Lost 2010 said...

Good night, ange. Thanks for all your hard work.

maven said...

Night, Ange!

So does all this "gobbely-gook" somehow means that the island is being cloaked (hidden) by electromagnetic waves distorting light?

jess4ua said...

Maven- Yes, in a nutshell!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Good night ange.
You guys did good work tonight.

jess
I like it. It really works for me.

jess4ua said...

I was thinking too, about whether or not the electromagnetic field around the island could keep one from leaving. With this new vortices theory I out, I am thinking that again. I wonder if spinning electromagnetic energy would be strong enough to draw or suck things(such as rafts) back to the island. And that could be how things(such as airplanes and helicopters) crash, when they hit the electromagnetic vortices. Then I also wonder if the way to get around the vortices would be to go under water (such as a submarine). I have no scientific backing for this mind you, just blabbering.

Lost 2010 said...

Okay, I'm worried that this pdf makes more sense to me that all that stuff you guys were saying about stars last night.

It makes an odd kind of sense as long as you don't think about it too hard.

jess4ua said...

lost2010- What I get out of it is that they are able to create, basically, and electromagnetic tornado. Is that what you are thinking?

Lost 2010 said...

I'm wondering if the electromagnetic field doesn't affect the tides and currents as well.

Lost 2010 said...

Could definitely be a tornado like arrangement. I was thinking more of a repellent sphere with an electromagnetic wall. Sort of like they used in a casting process where I used to work. It's like a wall that metal can't penetrate because of the forces acting on it, but something like your hand could push right through (if putting your hand in molten metal was a desirable thing to do).

So if a plane, for instance, came through, the forces would tear it apart. But the people themselves might be relatively unscathed.

jess4ua said...

Yeah, that is what I thought originally. My thinking is swayed now by the vortex theory though.

Lost 2010 said...

And the vortex would come closer to explaining the apparent invisibility of the island. Because any sort of satellite imagery would probably be distorted by a varying magnetic field - maybe just making it appear to be more ocean.

And if you figure the magnetic field repels most objects and keeps them away from the island except during fluctuations when the polarity is reversed periodically drawing objects in. . .only to be torn apart by the magnetic forces within the vortex.

Ah yes, good sci-fi material. I could definitely get into that.

scoutpost said...

Oh boy- got a lot of catching up to do! Looks like a lot of interesting stuff!

maven said...

Yes, all this sci-fi stuff is definitely based on real science (something Darlton has always said). I'm beginning to get my feeble mind around this. It WOULD explain how so many survived the crash of 815 (maybe even Sonya), and how boats and rafts can't leave, only submarines under water. And how the island is hidden from view.

The question is now: How does all this relate to Sam's story? If the ship is approaching the island, how does it get through this vortex?

jess4ua said...

Maven- I am not so sure the vortex is keeping things out. I think it might actually suck them in. I think it may just be fate as to whether or not you accidentally "run into" it. And the sub may have to enter under water so that it doesn't get torn apart.

thewonderllama said...

actually, due to the wave-particle nature of light, a magnetic field isn't able to effect light beyond the quantum level. there's a good explanation of it here. the loophole could be that the electromagnetic field is so unbelievably strong that it breaks down all of the photons into electron/positron pairs, and during the time the photons are electron/positron pairs it skews them all to a great degree. it would be rather extreme, but i suppose within the context of what we've seen so far (since the electromagnetic power released by the button not being pushed/failsafe key not being turned would have been catastrophic on a global level (per carlton and damon on the lost 3 special features)), it's not outside the realm of pseudoscience, eh?

i'd just figure being exposed to that much electromagnetic energy would be more likely to turn everyone on the island sterile and develop all sorts of tumors instead of curing them. :)

thewonderllama said...

something i was thinking about when they gave michael the boat and benry told him to travel on a heading of [insert heading here]...how does that square with the vortex theory? could it perhaps be the coordinates that mark the line perpendicular to the way the magnetic field of the island is polarized? if this is the case, would traveling on the opposite bearing also work? is that the only safe way to approach the island too without crashing?

jess4ua said...

the wonderllama- It talks about that in the national geographic article too. hehehe. I am going on the writers saying the show is "based" on science. LOL Like Ange always says, there are no real smoke monsters either....so how scientific can LOST really be.

jess4ua said...

Excellent idea wonderllama!!! It def could be. Either that, or Ben is lying.

scoutpost said...

Ok I'm getting ready to read that Natn'l Geographic article. This is a lot of heavy stuff for late on a Friday night. At least we're all admitting that we're not smarter than a 5th grader (except maybe for wonderllama). Don't know how this all fits in, but it is exciting stuff.

DeDJeZTeR said...

I just found a connection I have not seen mentioned yet... if it has please ignore this.

In S03E13: The Man from Tallahassee

The kid who comes to Locke about his Dad's name is Peter Talbot, supposedly from a rich family. Could they be related to each other, Peter and Mr. Talbot.

oodles said...

dedjezter,
yes, there has already been speculation about that, and if you look at the two, a family connection is quite possible (unlike, say, Danny Devito and Michael Douglas).

Fenris said...

Morning all.

Anyone that has trouble with PDFs - Try Foxit reader. It's just a lot more stable then Adobes own one.

Jess - great link. I must have missed it first time around. Certainly fits.

Ange said...

Good mroning!
Oodles has been working hard at screenshots. I added some that were e-mails to the Photobucket. Specifically this one was neat as it shows that actual image they used. Thanks Oodles!

Also, I literally googled Maxwell's Equations for Dummies. I got hits, but they must be for dumb scientists. I'm still digging and trying to make sense of things that my non math brain was never designed to...links to come.

Keep up the great play/work gang!

memphish said...

Great work everyone. Here's another thing for the scientists in the group to deconstruct for the non-scientists. Closed Timelike Curves. It came up at DarkUFO's chat last night. The consequences part is especially interesting in light of LOST.

memphish said...

I also have some basic questions about the postulating last night in terms of using magnetism to cloak the Island. 1. Is this like the Philadelphia Experiment? 2. Would it be the Island's inherent magnetic properties that are cloaking it or did Dharma or Ben's group manipulate magnetism to create the effect? 3. How would this work in light of the release of the Swan's magnetic build-up every 108 minutes and it's apparent capping that occurred when the key was turned? 4. If it's merely a case of cloaking, why couldn't Desmond's boat escape? 5. If it's actually some kind of bubble that the Others go under in their sub, what has changed or will need to change in order for the freighter or its helicopter to penetrate said bubble in both directions (i.e. on and off Island)?

Ange said...

This:
Many physicists then developed a theory of electromagnetism now known as classical electromagnetism. James Clerk Maxwell then brought everything together into one theory of electromagnetism. This type of electromagnetism was based on Maxwell's equations and the Lorentz force law. Maxwell's studies showed what light actually was. Maxwell's work did not work with classical mechanics because he said that the speed of light was always constant. It only depended on the permeability of the substance it was traveling through. This led to the development of the theory of special relativity by Einstein.

It takes what thewonderllama said and makes it comprehensible for my brain.

I got that from The Simple English Wiki, which when describing electromagnetic equations, really isn't that simple. If you want to look though Maxwell is here and how it relates to electromagnetism is here.

Jess's National Geographic article is still my favorite thing to come out of the research right now (she posted a link too, but it's worth a second mention and not having to scroll up :D).

I think the two ideas combine nicely. I do feel though that this Maxwell stuff might just be an idea. That we're supposed to get the concept but not have to actually understand the equations/physics. This is just my personal feeling as a lot of this is way over my head, but I don't think that people in a chat room or the regular Lost fan/viewer will really need to do physics to figure out clues for this game.

As an aside there are some things in my feed reader about chat that are making me go :S. I thought there weren't going to be clues in chat? Did I miss something?

memphish said...

Ange said:As an aside there are some things in my feed reader about chat that are making me go :S. I thought there weren't going to be clues in chat? Did I miss something?

Arguably, it's not a clue, more an idea, just like the ideas we have here in comments, only they used chat. If we had chat, we probably would use chat too. At this point it's hard to say if these people know more about the game than we do or only want to make themselves look like they do, especially given your ability to log in as anyone in chat.

I'd also guess there are people in the broader LOST community that had come up with that idea since the S3 finale given a prominent name in the entry.

Ange said...

memphish said...
I'd also guess there are people in the broader LOST community that had come up with that idea since the S3 finale given a prominent name in the entry.
GOOD POINT!

Memphish, you raise a lot of REALLY good questions!

I just finished reading Terry Pratchett's Pyramids (DiscWorld) and it's making me connect to Lost theories. Specifically from the book the idea that pyramids hold time and they need to release a flair of stored energy each night. When that doesn't happen it turns the city 90 degrees and makes it basically in between dimensions thus no one can see it but the people in the city. To avoid this shift the pyramids are capped to control the flares. Although even capped, time, in the kingdom that has all the pyramids, moves differently than time on the rest of the Disc. That's a nutshell of it really.

The release of time part might tie in a little with the 108 and releasing whatever electromagnetic energy is being stored in the swan hatch.

Without the release of the energy, the island had somehow been shifted, or in our case unshifted into visibility? Although you're right, if it's just cloaking then how would it keep Desmond's boat on the island. Which makes me start thinking about Faraday cages again and the presence of Smokey. Are they using a Faraday Cage to control Smokey and keep in contained. The idea of Smokey kind of makes me think about an answer your number 2. I think that the island had these properties all along, and Dharma et al decided to try stuff, like creating an electromagnetic smoke monster (a weapon?), a cloaking device, and maybe even an electromagnetic wormhole that can be controlled as to when it opens and closes (per Jess's article). Maybe that's how they can get on and off the island, but only when access is granted.

All very advanced mumbo jumbo that is maybe made possible by the natural magnetics of the island.

smb021 said...

The magnetic fields work with Desmond not being able to get away from the island even though he was sailing for two weeks. But there is this repeated idea of not being able to get back once you leave. So how is Michael going to be back for season 4.

jess4ua said...

Memphish said: 4. If it's merely a case of cloaking, why couldn't Desmond's boat escape?

I think this is where the vortex theory comes in. If the electromagnetic energy is spinning, then it could, arguably, be strong enough to keep pulling things back to the center that are trying to leave. Also, I think once you come into contact with the vortex it would suck you in.

As far as the freighter goes, it should be able to enter. And I haven't seen any spoilers, so I don't even know it it leaves or if they get of the island some other way. Or maybe when the hatch exploded it stopped the vortex? So big *shrug* on that one.

jess4ua said...

Ange - I was thinking about Smokey last night too. I am pretty much convinced that the wall around "othersville" is a Faraday Cage that they built to keep Smokey out. Which would def mean he is some sort of electrical energy. I wonder if some how Smokey uses electrical currents to make a "photo" of memories in peoples brains. Such as he did to Eko. Hmmmm, I think I need to do a little research.

Ange said...

smb021: The only problem with that is that it seems Richard Alpert can leave and come back to the island (per him going to get Juliet). If people were unable to return, where would the food come from as well? It's being talked about by Dalton that the drops might not be actual drops, but the fact is that unless there is a Dharma grocery store on the island that makes it's own product, someone somewhere has to be able to get to and from the island to bring supplies.

The purpling may have changed access to the island...but before then people were certainly getting on and off no?

memphish said...

This is kind of a stupid and basic question, but I'll ask it anyway. Are we assuming at some level that the metal in Desmond's boat remains attracted to the Island or is it merely the case that the compass is so screwed up that he can't use normal methods to set a course that would allow his escape it or something else? Underlying my question is the fact that the boat is primarily a non-metallic entity and the same goes for the plane which is made of primarily of titanium.

Also, I haven't seen spoilers either, only the trailer airing on ABC.

memphish said...

Another question this time about Faraday cages. Would there be some wavelength which would essentially make you one with the cage and allow you to pass through? Could that be why heading 325 allows you to escape, and a similar heading sent out by the now possibly offline buoy described by Mikhail that would allow you to enter the cage? And finally if the entire Island is a Faraday cage would that mean there is a ring of conducting material circling the Island?

Thanks to everyone for even tolerating much less attempting to answer my questions. Maybe Carol or Jess or the other scientific types could collaborate on a post for the blog that tries to summarize the science that has been raised by the game with their ideas about how it might apply to LOST?

Ange said...

Memphish said...Would there be some wavelength which would essentially make you one with the cage and allow you to pass through?

Kinda. My resident expert engineer says that a Faraday Cage is designed to restrict some frequencies. Each frequency has a different size "hole" that it can get through. You can set the cage to filter each size hole, or make it "air tight" and not allow any frequencies to get through.

So in essence, yes, you can essentially set and restrict travel of FREQUENCIES. I have no idea how that would affect solid matter like people and boats, but electromagnetic frequencies certainly.

Ange said...

Also, I put the two white rectangular blips from the video diaries into one picture. It's here

jess4ua said...

Okay, Ange and I are going to try to get something together we will post tonight about what we think these theories are that we got in the glitches last night. Also, we will try to cover how we think the Faraday cages and theory of vortices work together to keep people from leaving the island.

If anyone, maybe some more scientifically inclined people who have looked at this, has anything to add or say or help with this please send us an email and we will put it in.

Thanks

jess4ua said...

Also, when I say "leaving the island" I mean in general. Obviously people can come and go somehow. There are a few theories floating around about that as well (like thewonderllama). I will add those in as well.

Ellen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ellen said...

Sorry...I forgot to put in the URL...
I found this:
Time Travel Possible

It states that time travel to the past is a possiblity without invoking the "Grandfather Paradox" and references Minkowski!!

xxoo

Amused2bHere said...

Wow, I think I'm caught up now, but seriously in doubt as to my ability to keep up with you guys!

I understand the EM wormhole hiding the island.(thanks Jess!) It's the best explanation I've read to date. Is is possible that Darlton and JJ are that well versed in this type of science? It boggles the mind.

As for our story: I looked but didn't see if anyone has said this...I hope we'll see Sam and company on Naomi's boat during the premiere. Even if they don't tell us who they are, I'd love it if in the background of the welcoming scenes we are able to see Sam reuniting with Sonya. Only those of us who followed find815 would recognize them, but we'd certainly get a kick out of it! What a shout-out that would be.

Gee, I hope Sonya wasn't sitting in the tail section with Cindy.

On the other hand, I think this whole find815 game will bring us to finding the faux 815 with all the faux corpses. I'm not sure how this goes along with the timeline of the show...it seems to me Sam's story is sort of parallel to our Losties' story...the 3 months or so of being Lost and Sam's experience at sea..won't be home for Christmas, blah blah...will he be in the area of the tsunami?

ack, I've rambled long enough. I guess that's what comes from not checking in every day ;)

5 days to go!

maven said...

I've got a headache with all this scientific stuff. I'm sure Ange, Jess, Fenris are working hard to help all of us feeble-minded people understand what TPTB seem to want us to know. They've always said that there is science behind everything that happens on the show. It seems that they are finally trying to lead us in the direction to explain all the weird happenings for the characters and the island.

Without getting anywhere near the scientific stuff, here's how I see it: The work of Maxwell seems to lead to the island being able to be hidden (or cloaked) by the high degree of electromagnetism found there. This high degree of EM has formed a wormhole-like thing (thanks Jess) that prohibits people from easily coming and going to the island. There might be a way out on heading 325 given to Michael and Walt. Also, the vortex theory (thanks Jess) could either be sucking things in or repelling them away from the island. An easy way in and out is to go "under" all of this; therefore, there's the submarine route. There are various Faraday cages around the island (thanks Ange) that protect people from Smokey, which seems to be made up of extreme energy. Maybe the Dharma people tried to control this energy, but lost any control they had and they set up the sonic barrier to keep it out.

All of this is in extremely layman's terms. I don't thoroughly understand the science behind all of this, but there does seem to be "rational" explanations for the things happening to the island.

memphish said...

Nice summary Maven.

Jess and Ange I'll look forward to your post. I truly appreciate all the work both of you and Fenris have put into this blog. It makes following the game fun and informative.

A2BH, I agree that I think the game is leading us to the freckage pre-Naomi's and pre-Cooper's arrival on Island. Has anyone noticed in the shots of the Christiane 1 anything resembling "cameras and these little robots to survey the wreck?" (That's Naomi I'm quoting.)

Carol Dunstan said...

morning all

It's gonna take me a while to catch up as I have to go and make breakky right at this minute. But I'm glad the Philadelphia Experiment has come up because it was something I was trying to recall at the start (when I was talking about transportation and duplication... pre- my Red Dwarf post) along with Vile Vortices. So now I can stop racking my brain trying to think of the name of it

takes a village said...

Thanks to all you Extreme ARGers who take this game to that higher level,and keep us up to date with all these science, and math clues.
It seems that The Dharma Initiative had found the perfect place to conduct their experiments,and research; hidden from the world.Things were going great until those pesky Hostiles crashed the Dharma party.

Ange; Dharma grocery store, lol....
Picture teenaged Ben at the end of the check out line asking: "Will that be paper or plastic?"

takes a village said...

Thanks to all you Extreme ARGers who take this game to that higher level,and keep us up to date with all these science, and math clues.
It seems that The Dharma Initiative had found the perfect place to conduct their experiments,and research; hidden from the world.Things were going great until those pesky Hostiles crashed the Dharma party.

Ange; Dharma grocery store, lol....
Picture teenaged Ben at the end of the check out line asking: "Will that be paper or plastic?"

Carol Dunstan said...

memphish I have been wondering about a lot of things you mentioned, basically how did the events in the Swan hatch affect any magnetic bubble effect that was hiding the island? jess suggested that the vortex stopped when the hatch exploded. I've been thinking back to the Sri Lanka video... how did Dharma/Hanso find the island in the first place? Was the bubble/votex/Faraday cage already in effect or did they create it (maybe with the creation of the Swan hatch)? Is the electromagnetism to blame for the failed pregnancies of the Others, and how does that affect animal life on the island?

ange, I too agree that I don't think we need to understand the equations (though I do wonder if there was a reason one equation was repeated 3 times). as I said to my sister when relating all of this, I think what may be happening to the island is an extrapolation of Maxwell (and some of those other things we have dug up), which does fit in with Dartlons "based on science" comments.

ange, I remember when the food drop episode aired here. We had a great discussion in YIM chat about possible means of that happening without anyone hearing an aeroplane etc. Now we are being told that maybe it's not an aerial drop, the parachute could be a red herring. Since the sub seems to be the only way on and off the island that would be the logical guess... except the sub is no longer controlled by Dharma and so why would the Others continue with the drop??? If the drop originated on the island, who did it???

memphish said...

Carol, From the stuff Darlton said in that Access Granted portion of the Blu Rays I think the Island's unique electromagnetic properties might provide some level of privacy from the world, though obviously Dharma/Hanso was able to find it and devise a method of arrival, a method that from the Linuses arrival on the Island did not seem as extreme as Juliet's.

Then DI started futzing around and messed up the inherent properties resulting in their Swan station containment exercise, but I'd guess they were still able to harness the properties to provide some level of security, though I'd suppose location alone was for the most part plenty secure.

I would think that once Ben's group took over they upped the security ante to prevent DI from returning to the Island. In fact I think they created a system that rendered the Island completely unaccessible except when they made it accessible. I think the only other way it becomes accessible is every once in a while when a storm messes with the electromagnetism perhaps creating temporary portals of sorts. That could explain both Rousseau and Desmond's arrival via sea during a storm. And then it would also break down if the button weren't properly pushed -- 815. I don't know how to explain the Nigerian drug plane.

As for what happened when the key was turned, I'd guess the system is no longer properly calibrated, so there might be holes such as the one Naomi entered through absent a storm. I'm still guessing though that Jack et. al are going to have to make some additional adjustment in order for a helicopter or other vehicle to safely arrive on Island and safely leave the Island.

Capcom said...

Great talk today everyone!

I (and Fenris too I think) have always been partial to the Philly Experiment aka Unified Field theory for some of the island's behavioral mysteries! Fascinating stuff. Don't forget that not only did that ship supposedly disappear from view, it also accidently spontaneously transported to another place (trapping some shipmates in the ship's hull when it re-materialized). So that could cover some of our island theories too!

Thanks for sharing all the science links everyone!

Capcom said...

Speaking of your good callibration thought Memphish, it could be that if the island's "EMG field" still exists to some extent after the purpling, it might now be just very unstable and not a "solid" field anymore. So then Naomi, et.al., can maybe happen upon an "opening" while flying around and make it in.

Carol Dunstan said...

memphish, thanks for all of that. I obviously haven't read all the Blu Ray stuff (don't why it didn't occur to me, but I think I must've figured that the srop info was the only interesting bit since that's all I've heard anyone mention). The storms certainly have an explaination for Danielle and Desmond, the plane is an exception though... Maybe there was a storm for it too, but that doesn't explain how it is so far away from where it is supposed to be. Just like the report of 815 being off Bali...

Capcom said...

Heheh, someone posted over on DarkUFO this little tidbit about the crew of the Philly Exper..."Some were alleged to have suffered from mental illness as a result of their experience...Still other members, like Jacob D. Murray, were physically unaccounted for — supposedly “vanished”.

Hmmmm...Jacob??? Wasn't that another Fenris theory that Jacob is floating in and out of phase for some reason?

memphish said...

People have been calling Philadelphia Experiment for quite a while haven't they?

I went over to Lostpedia and found this reminder that the Hanso Foundation also had an Electromagnetic Research Initiative and there was a connection with auroras.

Capcom said...

Sweet! :-) Lordy, it could very well be that TPTB are actually tying everything (from the show, TLE, F815) together for us!!

Lost 2010 said...

I think for the science on the show to work as a story, we'll have to get a general understanding of what they based it on and then not work too hard to deconstruct it.

I think they can get around the iffy parts by saying it's a 'completely unique' electromagnetic signature or something like that.

Normally, high levels of EM radiation can cause cancer and negatively impact the reproductive system, as well as stop pacemakers and so on. But this island as a unique electromagnetic signature that causes just the opposite effect.

Some bacteria for instance cause disease, but the right bacteria can be used to cure disease. Why couldn't you apply that same logic to a completely unique EM field?

At least, I'd buy it for the sake of a good story.

Capcom said...

Me too Lost2010. If you think about it, TPTB could say or imply anything that any other good SciFi/science-factish program has put forth, like say, Star Trek, Stargate, etc., and it can sound perfectly believable for the story at hand.

Ellen said...

Cap-I agree about the tie-in between the series and the 2 args!!! I've said that for a while now. Others have dismissed this because of the time line, but I really believe it's possible, I mean, look at the way they make time ambiguous on the island, blending past, present and future...so why not?

Capcom said...

Right Ellen! I think that that DHARMA c.1970s ties everything from the show and games together. It's all about the research...in "the world" and on the island. Granted, Mittlewerk can't (hopefully) jump from 2006 to 2004 and back (we'll see). But many elements from the work of the DI links all the chain of tales together. We'll see how far they go with the time jumping, but if nothing else, all the DI science can fit soundly across the entire arc of show/game/game as far as I can see right now.

Ellen said...

I also believe that the EM affects the brain too, not just healing the body, providing protection from detection, and possibly powering and directing the "smoke monster" (ring of grey matter around Jacob's cabin-metal?) I think this could explain Hurley's friend "Dave", Walt, Ana Lucia all appearing after death. Although, when I wrote about it before, I wasn't thinking about the physical shielding, just about how I feel it would affect the brain and how it would perceive things.
See My Blog on MySpace
xxoo

memphish said...

Wow Ellen! I'll look forward to digging into that when I have more time and focusable brain cells. In Other Words, too deep for Saturday night. ;-) As for Dharma c. 1970 as Capcom puts it, I would recommend to both you and Capcom the commentary for "The Man Behind the Curtain." Darlton foreshadow a story we have not yet been told.

Ellen said...

Thanks memphish, I will watch with commentary this weekend!!
xxoo

Amused2bHere said...

I'm going to watch that with commentary too, Memphish. Thanks for the idea.

maven said...

All I can say is that I'm in awe of you guys. It's amazing all the thoughts, theories and explanations are beginning to make sense to me and also clarify what's happening on the show. It's so exciting that Darlton has gone to so much trouble to get all of us thinking about the possibilities through this game. We are getting so much information into the Lost mythology. The casual viewer is missing out on so much background into the series. I really think this whole game, along with TLE, has enhanced the viewing pleasures of Lost.

Thanks to everyone here who has done so much homework and research on these very complicated subjects. And also for theorizing into how electromagnetism, vortex theory, the Casimir Effect, the Philidelphia Experiment, the CTC, Maxwell, Faraday, etc. makes sense of the crazy happenings on the island.

oodles said...

I also want to thank all you guys for the great theories and explanations. While I have training in biological sciences, physics is not one my strengths and the material to which we have been pointed is not exactly very palatable LOL!
I want to throw something else in the ring and apologize if it has been discussed earlier (I joined the game late).
My premise is that Flight815 crashed in the South Pacific (not near Bali), Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan vanished in the South Pacific (>Erarat Aviation, "Adam and Eve"), the Black Rock was seen heading East out of Papua New Guinea (>South Pacific).
Now we know that Oceanic Airlines officially abandoned the search at some point in late 04 and had the passengers declared deceased. We also know that at some point prior to December 12, 2004 the remains of the plane and passengers were allegedly found in the Java/Sunda trench.
My theory is that, in the game, we are approaching the point where allegedly the plane wreck is found. We've all been wondering why on Earth they would have been looking for the plane near Bali in
the first place.

THEORY MODE ON
The whole mission to find the Black Rock is a cover-up, possibly even on a 'need to know'/'plausible deniability' basis as far as the captain and expedition supervisor are concerned. The Maxwell Group/Widmore Corporation (with its ties to the Hanso Foundation and Paik Heavy Industries) is sending a supposed salvage ship to the Sunda trench to look for the Black Rock. This makes sense as it is on the route the ship was planning to take (but for reasons unknown did not - it left Papua New Guinea eastwards, not westwards). Either Oscar Talbot is in on the con and will simply produce fake footage of the wreck of Flight 815 or else he is not in on the deception and will indeed find a fake wreck of Flight 815 4 miles down the trench, placed there by Widmore/Hanso/Paik. I tend to the former possibility on account of Talbot's secretive, distrustful and threatening behaviour. The trench is conveniently deep to prevent anyone from lifting the airplane or even just from checking it out for themselves due to the very specialized and expensive equipment needed to even dive that deep (> MIR submersible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIR_%28submersible%29), and the captain, the ship's log and even the confidential research brief will be there to back up the alleged Black Rock salvage story leading to the "accidental" finding of the plane wreckage. The finding will put to rest any speculation as to the fate of the survivors and will stop anyone from snooping around the South Pacific in search of them, risking discovery of the island, now that it has possibly been decloaked due to the failsafe mechanism.
THEORY MODE OFF

I know this does not explain any of the electromagnetic anomalies in Sam's current location. However, it just does not make sense that anyone would even be looking near Bali in search of Flight 815, so the discovery must be accidental and I think it is no coincidence that a Widmore-funded ship is snooping around that area at this point in time in the story.

oodles said...

correction:
"Erarat Aviation" should read "Herarat Aviation".

oodles said...

It's worth taking a look at what went down at DarkUFO's chat room last night.
Perhaps it's fake, but then, maybe not.
There is the Jemi / Yemi connection and I have a feeling that the Blip from Video Diary 4, could come from this painting:
http://www.spamula.net/blog/i37/varo06.jpg
(Title: Useless Science or the Alchemist).
What d'ye think?

Fenris said...

Morning all. Summary is up. Bit later then usual, but it's been a busy weekend.