Tuesday, 22 January 2008

Chapter 4- E-mails, & voice mails, & letters, oh my!

UPDATE 1/23 - Last night Maven e-mailed us about some numbers showing up in the Sunda Trench website on Sam's laptop. I took a screen grab and played with the contrast and they are there. Click here for the picture in the Oceanic Conspiracies Photobucket. Carol in comments mentioned that the numbers are in columns and when thinking about the Walt Whitman poem from the other night along with the equations at the bottom of each column, we glean that you need to add each column and divide by 6. Here's what you get:
a: 115 b: 104 c: 105 d: 109 e: 109 f: 114
These numbers can then be converted into ASCII characters and these come out as:
S H I M M R
What these are for and/or what they mean is as yet unclear.

~Ange


Tonight we have a voice mail and four new e-mails.

Voice Mail:
  • From Randy's Office- It's someone called Richard calling per Randy. There is an insurance pay out from an investment in a box company that has come through and would like to know how he is to get him the money.
E-mails:
Inbox
  • Subject: your mum Sender: Tracey- she called his mum and confirms that she is worried about him. She's also scored an invite for Christmas with Sam's mum.
  • Subject: [no subject] Sender: unknown- It's a random string of numbers and letters again.
    • The letters in each line are anagrams for numbers spelled out (ie. twelve, fifteen, etc). When decoded you get:
      • 12 15 22 5 25 15 21 13 1 4 12 25 which using corresponding letters of the alphabet gives you LOVE YOU MADLY
      • Is this a message from Sonya?!
      • Thanks to Ellen in comments who points out: Sun would tell Jin that she loved him every time she spoke to him, and then he would ask her, "madly?" and she would respond with "yes, madly." It became sort of an icon...especially when we got the flashback of her infidelity.
(Thanks Takes a Village for the e-mail and Jess and Fenris for working it out.)

Sent Mail
  • Subject: payout Recipient: Randy- Per message he is replying by e-mail because he can't make calls. He's happy about the box company payout and he needs the money now that he's not at Oceanic.
  • Subject: Homesick Recipient: Tracey R- Sam thanks her for the "holiday tip" but he won't be following up on it.
So is the box company THE box company? Is there more to the whole Mum part of this story? Are these messages telling us something? Does Sam not following-up on the holiday tip mean that that clue is a dead end? Could the possible Jin and Sun reference be a clue that Paik Heavy Industries is involved here?

282 comments:

1 – 200 of 282   Newer›   Newest»
Fenris said...

So is Sonya doing this and astral projecting early on?

jess4ua said...

repost

Fenris- I suppose it could be a lie. But that seems like a pretty personal phrase. Perhaps that only Sam would know.

memphish said...

Repost

--But I still don't get that location!!!!!!!!! Unless it's manipulation. Remember I think we're supposed to think Sam's gone off the deep end. Of course, we all went off the deep end at least over a year ago, so it seems normal to us.

Ellen, what do you mean about Sun and Jin?

Also, where can we score some of Mum's rumballs?

Fenris said...

Maybe Sonya is trapped kinda out of phase like Jacob seemed to be.

memphish said...

Just noticed the won't be following up the holiday tip thing. Does that mean the whole stegosaurus debacle was just for us?

LostIt said...

repost

I don't think there is any internet access on the island anymore since the flame station was blown up, so I don't think Sonya could be sending emails from there. She must be somewhere else.

Unless there's another station on the island capable of communicating with the outside world.

jess4ua said...

Fenris- I don't know if you saw my comment on the last thread, but I thought Sonya was projecting herself as well.

Ange said...

I just did a little update to the main page. I added a few more things on the bottom to think about...pertaining to Mum and this message business, as well as thoughts on the "holiday tip".

LostIt said...

I was wondering about that, too. memphish. It's a big disappointment to me it that's the case. A lot of folkws worked hard decoding that. To have it be irrelevant to the rest of the game just irks me.

memphish said...

So what if Sam's box company was The Magic Box company and it blew up courtesy of Locke? Do you think Mittelos has a box company?

Also Lostit, we know that as of the end of S3 sat phones work, could it be used to email? I still think Sam is working pre-Naomi's arrival though and arguably the Flame was still operational at that point.

Fenris said...

I was thinking when I watched the recap thing (which I saw a short while ago as I didn't get to play last night - still haven't attempted the chart plotter). Talbot said "some people think your an asset to this expedition". I wonder if it wasn't Ockham he was talking about at that point.

Ellen said...

repost-Definitely an allusion to Sun & Jin- I'm guessing Paik Heavy Industries...could it be????

memphish- Sun would tell Jin that she loved him every time she spoke to him, and then he would ask her, "madly?" and she would respond with "yes, madly." It became sort of an icon...especially when we got the flashback of her infidelity.

memphish said...

I think Ockham clearly considers Sam an asset because Ockham doesn't seem to know beans about electronic stuff and he also seems convinced that the area they are traveling with is going to mess with the equipment.

memphish said...

Wow Ellen, I never noticed that. I'm planning to watch DOC tomorrow. I'll keep an eye out for it.

jess4ua said...

Ellen - GREAT catch.....!

Ange- good thoughts posted. I especially think there has to be more to the whole "Mum" think. The conversations are no big deal and it seems as though they are really pushing it down are throat. hmmmmm

Fenris said...

If Sam wasn't there I can imagine him banging things to make them work. Lol.

Still, it's obvious Ockham did think him an asset, but that doesn't mean it is who Oscar was talking about.

And yeah great catch Ellen!

jess4ua said...

*thing
*our
sheesh

Ellen said...

I'm wondering now if Widmore and Paik are in cahoots on this adventure...makes sense, Paik built the freighter, Helgus Antonius. If the Helgus is not in play, perhaps they've supplied a different freighter? Naomi's freighter maybe... maybe it's a "head's up" for us about the freighter? And, in turn, a "head's up" for Sam to encourage him to not give up?....

xxoo

memphish said...

I agree Fenris that Talbot seems to be implying that he understands why Sam is there and what he's up to. Just like LOST you want to jump in there and say "Explain yourself clearly. Ask the right questions." But do they ever?

It's also odd that Sam is given such free access to the boat, like piloting it last night. I know that saved them from having to hire another actor, but I very much doubt that Ockham would turn his boat over to Sam and leave him alone on the bridge. We ought to at least have seen random crew roaming in the background.

Fenris said...

Yes very true Memphis. Ockhams boat seems drastically understaffed. What exactly was he going to do without Sam there? Still, suspension of disbelief.

Fenris said...

Maybe Owen is the invisible man.

Ellen said...

thankyou....!

xxoo

Fenris said...

Ellen - interesting point. Maybe Paik did build the freighter. That would explain a lot.

Carol Dunstan said...

Unless Tracey replies to Sam's email and tells him that Sonya once mentioned wanting to go to Bali, I doubt we are going to get more on the steg

And good catch on the "Love you madly". I don't want to wait till Friday to hear Sam say he suspects the emails are coming from Sonya. Which begs the question... is there a link between Sonya and Maxwell? Is the link via something else, like Widmore, or is she just using what she can?

Ange said...

I added the observation Ellen made to the main page. I think that is potentially important and also a GREAT observation. Well done Ellen!

Ellen said...

I can't help but tie these two args and the series together...they form a very full and rich background!! It's just that the time line can be so convoluted!!!

Ellen said...

Thank you Ange! How sweet...
xxoo

Carol Dunstan said...

I don't know about Talbot knowing why Sam was there... I can see a sense and reason to it, but I got the impression that Talbot was surprised that Sam knew of a connection with the Maxwell Group but he tried to hide it.

Fenris said...

Well I'm not over keen on the ARGs approach, I think they messed that a bit. But I AM enjoying the story and how it ties in.

I like the way they are giving us extra depth externally to the series. It's very cool. :)

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

There is a song by Cake called "Love You Madly." Appropriate lyrics include:

I don't want to think about it
I don't want to talk about it
When I kiss your lips
I want to sink down to the bottom
Of the sea


Also, remember: Walt communicated with Michael, potentially without the use of a computer. Even if that communication required two computers, the blast door map makes notation of a lot of DHARMATEL relays in the vicinity of the radio tower...

Ellen said...

Do any of you remember what finally happened to Mittlewerk when TLE ended? Was he prosecuted, imprisoned, etc. or did he just fall off the face of the earth, so to speak?
I missed the very end....:(

maven said...

Gosh, I left for a while and missed all the fun. Great work on deciphering the latest email.

And great tie-in, Ellen. I do think Paik could be the freighter builder. They are Paik Heavy Industries and a freighter is pretty heavy...LOL

Mum HAS to be more important...she just won't leave Sam alone. Unless, they are helping to establish the time line as being before Christmas.

So where the heck is Sonya. Talbot told Sam he won't find what he's looking for, but Sonya seems to be coming out everywhere.

Maybe Sam coming into some money is something that comes in the nick of time, and takes some pressure off of Sam so he can continue his quest. Loves how they made it a box company.

maven said...

Ellen: If I remember correctly (which is doubtful), Mittlewerk escaped to live another day...or another ARG.

Lost 2010 said...

I'm probably the last one to catch on, but I'm not sure The Maxwell Group is officially sending these messages to Sam. It seems to me that a subversive element within TMG is trying to thwart Talbot or at least put a watchdogo on his tail. I sort of got the idea that Sam had given the game away in that last scene and now Talbot knows he has a mole.

Ellen said...

Maven- thanks, did you see my OT comment to you at the end of the last post? (I'm a quilter too...!!!)

Anyway, I smell a connection somewhere between Mittlewerk (Mitlos) and the "others"....hmmmm.

Lost 2010 said...

Ellen - I'm glad you pointed out that it was Sun and Jin. It was driving me crazy. I knew that was a catch phrase for someone but couldn't remember if I was even thinking of the right show.

maven said...

Yes, Ellen, I saw that. You must be making baby quilts, too! LOL

Yes, when the name Mittelos Bioscience came up, many connected the "Mitt" to Mittlewerk.

So we originally thought that someone at Maxwell was supplying Sam with info. We speculated that it must be Penny since Maxwell is a subsidiary of Widmore. Now it's Sonya?

AS6 said...

If it is Sonya...then why is she being so cryptic? Is she being monitored?

Lost 2010 said...

Another set of lyrics to a song entitled 'Love You Madly'

Good things come to those who wait
So just relax and wait for fate
To let me see the day you'll say to me
I love you, love you madly

Ellen said...

Maven-not baby quilts, but a quilt for my brother who is now in a wheelchair (complications of diabetes)...he loves the sea.


The train of thought I had about Mittlewerk was concerning the spider protocol. Could it be that he is the one who ordered the freighter to search for the island so that he could continue with that? Is that what Ben meant by "every living thing on this island will die"...? I'm wondering if the freighter guys would have even noticed the island if Jack hadn't contacted them. They were surprised that Naomi was alive. Maybe they weren't aware that she saw the island and bailed out of her helicopter before it crashed. Now, they know where the island is and their primary mission is NOT rescue, so what could it be?

I really think that all the big money players are in on this, and that Mittlewerk is leading the charge. He wants that island for his own purposes.
xxoo

maven said...

Sorry to hear about your brother, Ellen.

Everyone connected with TLE kept insisting that it was separate from the show. But we're getting hints that stuff from Find815 will be showing up in S4. For those of us that participate in these "games" that would be the ultimate pay-off: that we're getting special information that gives us some special insight into what is happening on the show. When we all heard there was a freighter off the island, naturally we all wanted it to be Helgus Antonius. Now we'd like it to be the Christiane I!

jess4ua said...

Ellen- I had the exact same thought about the Spider Protocol! The only thing is that someone pointed out the timeline. The Lost Experience was in 2006. I suppose though that what happens on the show could be what Mittelwerk has done in the past. Maybe that is why Jack says he needs to go back to the island, to stop Mittelwerk. Especially if he knows in the future that Mittelwerk is still killing people.
However, that is a VERY far reach. I think TPTB have made it clear that TLE was a parallel game to LOST and that they would not mix. But who knows for sure!

jess4ua said...

Maven- Hahahahahaha!

Ellen said...

maven-you are right!

But even tho TLE seemed to be separate, I still believe it will tie into the overall picture. It has already with the Black Rock and Widmore, etc. I know Hanso is pretty much out of the picture, but Widmore and Paik are still very promenant and perhaps Mittlewerk totally subverted them to his cause. Perhaps this is the origination of the "illness" that Daniell referred to when she explained to Sayid that she killed her entire crew....and the quarantine signs on the doors of the hatches. I don't know....my brain hurts now (hahaha).
xxoo

maven said...

Jess: I just emailed you guys about some numbers found by Puffinin at Dark's on the Sunda Trench page on Sam's computer.

jess4ua said...

Maven- I've been working on it, thanks!

Ellen said...

Just saw the news about Heath Ledger-so sad! I loved him as William Thatcher in "A Knight's Tale." (Loved the music too!).

Well, good luck stewing over tonight's goodies...(yawn) time for bed! G'night all...you guys are terrific! What a team!

xxoo

maven said...

Night, Ellen!

Wonder if those numbers were always there and just found or are they the next clue?

yakobus said...

may not remember me, i was a fellow TLE-gamer, been lurking ever since just to keep up.

may be old news here, but since the box company burned down, that's a nod to hurley's curse, he owned the box company yeah?

Aimless22 said...

Humph!

Doesn't matter which way I tilt my screen...I can't see those bloomin' numbers!

Sayid'sgirl said...

I know they're not but those numbers remind me of the Valenzeti equation.

maven said...

aimless22: I had to tilt my screen all the way back and still tilt it more by raising the keyboard. There's a picture of where the numbers are on the OC Photobucket link. You do have to scroll down to see all of them.

LostIt said...

After adding, summing, dividing and looking up ASCII, I get shimmr. I must be doing something wrong. That doesn't make any sense to me.

jess4ua said...

Okay Folks,
The info Maven commented about is a potential spoiler. There is a picture posted in PhotoBucket
so you can check it out if you like. This information could be ahead of its time, so we are trying to find out for sure before we post it on the main page.

Carol Dunstan said...

I never thought that it was the Maxwell Group who wanted Sam on the Christiane I... because most companies don't send cryptic emails like that! I've always thought it was someone within Maxwell but I guess there's nothing stopping someone from simply making it seem like it comes from someone within Maxwell. I've been thinking all along that Sam is a bit of a goose for thinking tht way but I guess it adds to dramatic tension.

I've been looking at these new numbers and can't find anything that makes sense yet. They don't make any snese across or down putting through a dec/char translator (they looked like those sorts of numbers) unless it's anagrams. Can anyone shed light on why they'd use sigma (the Greek letter) at the bottom?

maven said...

Yes, we don't know when they first appeared. Dark's site is saying it was found tonight. People over there are saying it relates to the first lines of the poem.

But I really don't want to dwell on this until we can be sure this is not a spoiler or it was released prematurely (which has happened in this game).

maven said...

Carol: They're saying you have to add each column and divide by 6 to get a number. Does the sigma mean that you add and then divide? I'm not a math person at all!

Patch said...

Oh no, I've missed a lot of action!

Aimless- Just want to say thanks for the heads up on the Lost starting date and time here, I'm so looking forward to thursdays now. LOM at 8.30 followed by Lost at 9.30. What could be better? :D

So Sam had shares in Hurley's box company? That's how I'm reading it anyway. Of course Hurley's box company would have burnt down or blown up! Everything else he owns has. *lol*

You're all thinking the messages are coming from Sonya now?

Sayid'sgirl said...

At first I was thinking the numbers had something to with a map. Coordinates or something else.
But since it relates to the poem. Could it have something to do with a star chart in someway?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well if it's not a spolier of the game. I'm sure you guys will let us know soon. I'll wait to look at the photobucket picture.

Carol Dunstan said...

hmm, it does tie into the poem (add then divide) which makes me think this is just an extraneous bit for us, it'll have nothing to do with Sam (unless he has another look at the Sunda site). It could, but I don't think so.

So what we are left with is 6 numbers who's only significance I can think of was Joop was 105 years old

Patch said...

I can't for the life of me see any numbers there. I think I'll await further instructions on this one. :)

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Patch: They're there. You can barely see them without adjusting contrast. I could believe that they've been there the whole time, because I couldn't see them from my normal seating position.

But they're there, and they're clear as day.

Sigma is the symbol for summation. So yes, it's telling you to take the added total of _ column and divide it by 6.

What to do next...? That's beyond me.

Aimless22 said...

Nah, me either. I'll just check it out on the photoshop.

But then if it's a spoiler do I really want to know about it just yet?

Gah, decisions, decisions....

scoutpost said...

Sheesh I miss all the action!

I'm still a little unclear about all the openstego stuff and how it's supposed to fit in the game. Perhaps the ARG creators are adding some of the harder to solve stuff for the more "hardcore" ARG'ers (i.e. us) since we were all talking about how simple and straightforward the beginning was. I'm sure that there are probably people playing who just saw the billboards, etc. who are just doing the basic stuff. Just a thought.

Kyle- I thought about the song lyrics too when I saw LOVE YOU MADLY. But the Sun Jin connection is good too. Guess we'll have to wait a bit more on that one.

Gotta head to bed. Hope to see you all tomorrow.

Aimless22 said...

Funny that the band that sings that song is called Cake, and Sam said something about it being a piece of cake.....

Anyhoo, I've tried fiddle and fart-arseing around with the contrast etc etc but to no avail. Can't see any numbers.

I'm off to get tea ready...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Aimless: If you really want to replicate it, you'll need to adjust brightness and contrast. You need to take the brightness way down, and bump the contrast way up. Just FYI.

Aimless22 said...

Coolio, I'll give it a whirl. But probs just check out the photobucket pic.

Been thinking about this band CAKE and a poss link, and if you check out the song on Wiki, the artwork on the single release featues an astronaut.....hmmm

Maybe that Theremin instrument use is of some help too.... I dunno.

oodles said...

Hi guys,
found out how to get find815.com to work: it's security alright... Have to turn off Zonealarm :(
Pity all the action is in the middle of the night for me. Can't really join in.
As to the new set of characters: the Greek sign stands for sum, so you some up each column and divide by 6. That gives 115 104 105 109 109. As Hex characters they stand for: S H I M M
whatever that means (Ms him? > miss him? A Ship called MS Him/Mih or whatever?)
oh boy...

Ange said...

Good morning!
The main page is updated with pictures and the information about the Sunda Trench website and the numbers.

oodles said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oodles said...

oops, just realized I made mistakes (need more coffee lol), numbers translate to
S H I M M R. Sorry

But perhaps we need to look at the stars with those numbers (going by the Walt Whitman poem)
115 104 105 109 109 114

Fenris said...

Lol. I just did the same ascii translation and got here to find it done.

But what do with do with that? The only anagram I have for that is "Hmm Sir". Lol.

Fenris said...

HMS MIR?

Fenris said...

side note. Sunda Stories live website seems to be down.

Fenris said...

There isn't an HMS Mir btw.

I've tried reverse and shifted alphabets and it's just as weird.

Ange said...

Fenris: the only site on Sams laptop last night that couldn't be seen separately was the Sunda Trench one. Maybe go have a look at Sunda Stories on Sams computer and see if anything has been hidden in it today. Maybe they take down the live sites to make viewing more of a challenge for us.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I'm probably way off base here. I usually am.
But if we're comparing the poem to these numbers. Then I think they must refer to co ordinates using the stars. The poem is about a learn'd astronomer. The person in the poem leaves the lecture to go look at the stars. We've also had references to Fred Noonan, Amelia Earharts navigator who navigated by the stars. Also if you can't use electrical devices to find your coordinates you would use the stars.
I've done searches on sextants,chronometers and navigational astronomical tables.
I haven't come up with anything yet on how to use these numbers in this way and I'm probably over thinking it. But that's my theory.

Ellen said...

I'd like to believe you are correct, Sayid'sgirl! It just seems that we are being "shoved" in that direction with all the references, huh? :D
I also think that perhaps we might not have enough info. I mean, I'm not that astute when it comes to astronomy, but those numbers definitely aren't earthly coordinates I think!??

xxoo

memphish said...

Here's more on a possible link between Paik and other LOST players, namely Hanso. It's from the episode D.O.C. where Sun tells Jin that she loves him madly, twice. Yeah Ellen!

Ellen said...

Very good memphish! and yep, been watching LOST continuously since Christmas!!! It's amazing, knowing what I know now, how much I missed watching it the first few times (*giggle*). I really love LOST...


xxoo

Sayid'sgirl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sayid'sgirl said...

I deletd my post because it was a dulicate. When I posted earlier I got a blogger error and assumed that it hadn't posted so I re posted it.

oodles said...

HMS Mir is a good thought. Again, it points to the stars (space station).
I just installed the new Google Earth with Sky, so I'll try to see do these numbers mean anything in terms of coordinates.

Sayid'sgirl said...

ellen
Yoou're right they don't seem to earthly coordinates.
I think from what I've read so far that you take a measurement from the star to the earth or horizon to get a ground position and then you take another measurement around the axis someway. I don't know I'm horrible at math. Anyway it gives you a longitude and latitude that's based on a chart. And you have to recalculate each day based on wind or any other changes that may occur.
Like I said I'm probably over thinking it.
Here's a link to one of the sites I've been looking at if you're interested.
link

Ellen said...

I can't get the link to work, Sayid'sgirl-would love to check it out!

ular97 said...

Sayid'sgirl.. I know nothing of the star locations and all of that. But..if things are mirrored, wouldn't you have to change the numbers to opposite sides? Understand what I am trying to say?

Capcom said...

Right Sayidsgirl, but I can't get the link to work either. For astronomy, it's right ascension and declination for coordinates. And good thinking Ular that we might have to do it reversed, if stars are what we're being led to do. We should keep our eyes on the lookout for abreviations for them also in clues, such as "Dec" or "RA", in any future clue that might be coordinates, just in case.

maven said...

Morning all: Okay, so we're actively working on this latest clue now. Good. All the links to astronomy makes sense in terms of the poem we got.

What if this SHIMMR is part of the password for the Maxwell Group?

scoutpost said...

Well too bad my dad passed away years ago, he was a ship captain back in the day and knew all about navigating by the stars and how to use a sextant, etc. Guess I should've listened to him more...hmmm lesson there.

Ok this probably has nothing to do with the letters, but when Fenris mentioned HMS MIR, I remembered something I saw on the Sunda Stories site. One of the pictures where the image is not loaded looks like it says Submarine HMS M(?).jpg. I wonder if the unloaded images on that page will weigh in. Although the letters and the connection with the poem makes more sense. Just putting this out there.

Capcom said...

Interesting Scoutpost, maybe it's a Russian sub, so MIR would make sense. But not the HMS too much tho. Unless England bought a sub from the Russians? :o)

maven said...

Good eyes, Scoutpost! My first thought was the island submarine. But, of course, it was the Galaga, and Locke did something with it! Maybe we'll see a submarine called the HMS Mir on the other side of the Black Rock on the island! LOL

maven said...

I know nothing about astronomy. The poem indicates that we have to measure something with these numbers now. How does one measure something in astronomy?

ular97 said...

Wasn't there a space station or something named MIR? That is really ringing a bell with me.

ular97 said...

Yes...googled...it came up with Russian space station. Going to read more on it.

ular97 said...

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast10mar_1.htm

Here is says MIR cam down in South Pacific, March 23, 2001. There are more sites to look at.

scoutpost said...

Well my hubby is an amateur astronomer and I am trying to look up stars etc on a program he has, but I really don't know what to do with the numbers. If the numbers represent stars, there are more than one star that have the numbers 104, 105, etc. assigned to them. Although over and over stars with those numbers (104,105,109,114,115) appear in the constellations Taurus and Hercules. But if this means something, then what? What else do we do with them?

Capcom said...

Yes, it's not up there anymore tho, since its decommission and de-orbit. MIR stands for Peace.

Measurements in astronomy (with the RA and Dec) are hours, minutes, seconds, degrees, etc., on an equatorial standard. For example the equator equals 0' for Dec. North pole is +90, etc.

ular97 said...

Okay..there was also a MIR Shuttle, do the call shuttle's and planes ships?

Capcom said...

Right Scoutpost, if they are going to go by designated named star numbers, we might have to look at it in that respect also. There is an Arp105 galaxy (actually two galzies together) that is shaped like a guitar, for example. :-)

Capcom said...

Captain Kirk certainly called the Enterprise a ship. :o) "But seriously folks", yes, I believe they do.

Fenris said...

Yes the Russian Space Station is called the Mir. It is the famous one that often has joint missions and stuff. It's due to fall to earth in the near future IIRC as it's at the end of it's life span.

The submarine listed in the Sunda page was a real sub, I can't recall the name but Ange and I looked it up when we first noticed it. It's a Scottish sub and it's wreckage is in a known location (just off Scotland IIRC). It's definitely not Mir though.

I originally thought it was a mistake. It was listed near the entry for a US sub and while this sub sank it isn't on the list. I figured they just forgot it and it was the stock photo they were going to use. Maybe it was more significant though.

I think it unlikely for HMS MIR to be an in game vessel. But certainly they are two words/abbreviations that stand out from the letters.

Of course we don't really know if the letters are anything at all. First thing I thought when I saw the numbers were ASCII but it's true the poem was about the stars, so maybe they are some kind of star code.

Fenris said...

There is also a Sombrero galaxy IIRC. :)

ular97 said...

This is and excerpt from one article, since it has Fiji and S. Pacific references, I am giving it to you for info. only.

Alex Bowles was standing on a beach in Fiji as the Mir Space Station streaked to its final resting place in the South Pacific.

scoutpost said...

That's true capcom I didn't even think about galaxies. But that doesn't really make sense. It makes more sense to look at them as a way to find coordinates, but I have no idea how. The numbers themselves just seem too vague. Maybe we'll get another clue how to use them.

memphish said...

Isn't there a problem with us looking at star info. in that we don't know what date we're operating in? The stars move so in order to navigate by the stars we need to know not only the location of the stars, but also the date. And of course we've been having a problem with dates, so unless the Island is on a star, I'm not sure we're locating a position in the sky is going to do much to help us find 815 absent a date. The one date we know for sure is 9/22/04, so do we need to look for info. about the sky on that date?

Capcom said...

BTW, if we get anything with "NGC" in it, that's a designation for nebulae and galaxies.

MIR falling into the Pacific, interesting.

ular97 said...

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/mir_fiery_finale_page.html

They talk about pieces glowing, about a blueis h bright flash, etc. in this article of it coming down near Nadi, Fiji.

Ange said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
scoutpost said...

I agree memphish. That's why I just can't figure out what the heck we're supposed to do with the numbers now that we have them. Maybe they're part of the Valenzetti equation- LOL

Capcom said...

Right Scoutpost, I think that it will be more like star designation numbers, not galaxies. Glalaxies would be beyond the reach of even Hanso I think! :o)

As for the date, maybe we are just supposed to look within the given "somewhere before Christmas" reference that we have been given via Ockham to Sam? It does matter what time of year it is.

jess4ua said...

Sorry, I switched computers, let me repost that.......

Ange, I tried checking all of the other websites for numbers last night. I didn't see anything, but I was a bit delirious so maybe someone else should have a look too.

Capcom - A guitar galaxy...must be where Charlie comes from.

I was going to read more on star maps last night, but I got too tired. I think I'll do it this afternoon. Also, I am trying to figure out how we would measure numbers.....or do we use the numbers to measure something?

Capcom said...

Star measurements is what made me think of that Hoagland site yesterday. He maintains and theorizes that the Egyptians, for example, devised a measurement system for building and doing things based specific measurements and positions and rising of certain stars, such as Sirius. That much we know, but he also thinks that these methods have been utilized continually in history by TPTB, including that even NASA uses the same star-timing and measurements for their launches, etc.

Not that TPTB of the game would go to all this trouble, but just thought I'd throw that out just in case to cover all thoughts on star measurements.

scoutpost said...

What site is that capcom?

Ellen said...

I wonder if this might be a way to use the numbers?....

Celestial Navigation

Essentially it says:
"Modern" celestial navigation is based on spherical trigonometry and solving the "navigational triangle." (IMPORTANT: DON'T PANIC IF YOU DON'T KNOW TRIGONOMETRY! TABLES OR SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE WORK FOR YOU AND YOU ONLY NEED TO KNOW ADDITION AND SUBTRACTION TO NAVIGATE!)This is a triangle on the earth's surface with:

1) The North (or South) Pole as one corner,
2) The "Geographical Position" (GP*) of the celestial body as another, and,
3) Our Assumed Position (AP*) as the third.

The sides are:

1) the Pole to our assumed position (or 90 degrees minus our assumed latitude);
2) the Pole to the GP or 90 degrees minus the body's declination*; and
3) from our assumed position to the GP or 90 degrees minus the calculated height of the body above the horizon (our "zenith distance").

We are able to find the first two sides and the angle included in them, because we know our assumed latitude, can find the body's declination at that moment from the Nautical Almanac, and can figure the angle - the Local Hour Angle - from our data.

With this information, we can find the third side - our distance from the GP - and the angle or direction to the GP. For accuracy's sake, it is best to use at least two or preferably three bodies; where the lines of position cross on our chart will be a point, or more likely a small triangle called a "cocked hat," which is our location.

We are looking for the location of flight 815, so perhaps these are clues to that?...
xxoo

ular97 said...

OK I am getting the idea since no response usually means disinterest, I am going to abandon my train of thought on the ship MIR idea; and stop wasting my time on wild goose chases.

scoutpost said...

Good work Ellen- I was beginning to think about triangulation, but had no idea of where to start to look. You could have something I think.

scoutpost said...

ular- I thought the stuff you had on MIR was interesting. You never know what will turn up. If we all went down the same path, we'd miss half the solutions.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Hey Guys
I had to go out for awhile. Sorry about the link. See if this will work.

link

Now to back up and catch up on comments.

ular97 said...

I wasn't being mean or hurt or anything scout. I just thought if it didn't seem feasible, why waste my time. I am not a scientific sort, and I don't know if I am going in a possible direction unless someone else see's what I "might be seeing or think I see". LOL I am way behind a lot of you younger people on a modern education.

oodles said...

I too was becoming convinced the numbers had something to do with celestial navigation. However, some problems with this have been pointed out such as max 90 degree angles and the need for an exact time at which measurements are taken.
The HMS MIR crashing near Fiji is a little more intriguing. But the problem with that is that MIR was a Russian space station while HMS designates the British Majesty's Service.
There is another possibility though: MIR is also a self-propelled Deep Submergence Vehicle ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIR_%28submersible%29), one of very few in the world that can dive deeper than 3000 metres! (>Sunda trench?)

Capcom said...

Great site Ellen and very helpful! Since things may be whacky in seafaring land on this show/game, the way to get to the island might just be to go by the crazy coordinates alone, not trusting one's senses of N/S/E/W, etc., and just following whatever the nubmers say, and you will find the spot. Sort of like when flying with instruments in zero visibility, you trust the instruments not your spacial judgement. So whatever the coordinates say, even if it makes no sense (i.e., they are backwards), we just have to trust them to end up in the right place.

We did talk about the MIR thing Ular, I think that since it went down in the Pacific is a definite factoid for putting in the basket of overall facts that we have to possibly look at!

The Hoogland site is: http://www.enterprisemission.com/ and is very FULL of stuff. The info about NASA and the Egyptians was from before my dad died in 2002, so I could look through the archives and try to find it for us.

Capcom said...

Wow, good find on the deep-sub Oodles.

Ellen said...

I really like the sight you gave too, Sayid'sgirl! I knew we were thinking alike there...;D

and Ular- I am no spring chicken here, ok? I think we older folks have a lot of value to contribute!...

xxoo

ular97 said...

yes...oodles...good find

Sayid'sgirl said...

ular97
Reversing the stars would be a good idea if we're even supposed to be considering the stars. I'm not sure we are it's just an idea I had.
And the Mir crashing into the South Pacific is a good idea we do have a few pictures on Sam's websites that have disappeared maybe the Mir was one. I never did notice them and they were already gone by the time people were talking about them. Never give up on your on any theory even if it's wrong like mine probably is. It could lead your in the right direction.
Scoutpost
The missing pictures on Sam's websites may be the right route to take instead of "star gaziing" Oh I posted last night the numbers on the Sundra site reminded me of the Valenzetti equation. lol
memphish
That's true you do need a date. I thought I'd use Dec. 2004 it's a place to start.

Capcom said...

Yes, I finally looked at Sayidsgirl's site on navigation too, very helpful. :-)

OT...man, I have to stop reading about Heath Ledger and the new Batman movie so I can stop tearing up. So much like the feeling around Brandon Lee's last movie. :-(

Sayid'sgirl said...

ular97
I'm one the old broads here too.
And I was never up on education modern or otherwise.
I have how ever learned alot since Lost came on the air and with the games. And I am enjoying the new knowledge so much. If fun now that I'm old and not being graded on it.lol

Capcom said...

"..,now that I'm old and not being graded on it..." Yeah, why is that Sayidsgirl? Kinda like how it's more fun cleaning someone else's house. :-)

Ellen said...

capcom-I was just thinking about that. What a sad, sad thing. He was so young. I thought he was such an exceptional young man, as well as an exceptional actor. :( *sniff*

Sayid'sgirl- good place to start!
Or how about this...
The navigational direction that the flight was off course when they crashed, the date they crashed, etc.?

maven said...

I, too, am a member of the "older" generation, and I don't remember using my brain so much until I got involved in TLE and, of course, now! And I'm so glad we're not getting a grade for this! And I hope we don't have to turn in our "blue books". LOL, Sayid'sgirl!

Anyway, I really think we are meant to use this numbers to measure something in the stars. But what about the coordinates we've already gotten through the emails? We know there are two things "missing": The freckage and the island. Is Sam being told that he has to find one of these things using astronomical methods...the way it used to be done, with sextants, etc., from his heart?

Ellen said...

Speaking of "mirror"- check this out!!

Bowditch-The American Practical Navigator

In the introduction, on page 3:
Under "Sailing Direction"

Sailing directions or pilots have existed since at least
the 6th century BC. Continuous accumulation of navigational
data, along with increased exploration and trade, led
to increased production of volumes through the Middle
Ages. “Routiers” were produced in France about 1500; the
English referred to them as “rutters.” In 1584 Lucas
Waghenaer published the Spieghel der Zeevaerdt (The
Mariner’s Mirror), which became the model for such publications
for several generations of navigators. They were
known as “Waggoners” by most sailors. Modern pilots
and sailing directions are based on extensive data collection
and compilation efforts begun by Matthew Fontaine
Maury beginning in 1842.

Probably not relevant, but I found it interesting!
xxoo

Ellen said...

Good point, Maven! Perhaps Sam will have to navigate by the stars since there is so much electromagnetic interference! Although, you would think the captain would be the one to do that, if he knows how!
xxoo

Codysmom said...

LOL, I finally caught up on the game and on the comments.... may I now join the "old broad" convention? (yes, I am one...)

Actually, I have nothing new to contribute and you guys seem way ahead of me.

Sayid'sgirl mentioned about how much new learning has taken place since following Lost... boy, isn't that the truth? My "favorites" list now includes things like "Academy of Remote Viewing through Space and Time", "DMA TECHNICAL MANUAL 8358.1", and now the "Military Grid Reference System (MGRS)". I sometimes wonder what someone would think if they looked through my page history.....

Sayid'sgirl said...

Test

Kirsten said...

hi all, I don't know if it means anything, but I went back into the manifest on Sam's desk, and noticed that Sun, Jin, and Sayid are the only three with "polaroid" photos. Sun's is the only polaroid that has some numbers on it. I can't quite read them clearly, but thought I'd mention it in case they are important to the game.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Finally!!
I've been having trouble posting. I went over to TLC and posted fine and when I came back here it started working again.
So capcom
It's more fun because I'm learning for learning sake. There's no pressure or expectation.

memphish said...

Completely OT.

Happy Pie Day!

Codysmom said...

I wondered what you were testing, sayid'sgirl:)

Interesting, Kirsten. The numbers I get are 10531065060. I wonder if it's important?

Um, Happy Pie Day to you, too, memphish!?!?!?!?!

Sayid'sgirl said...

codysmom
I know what you mean I got things in my favorites that I never even heard of before these games.

Ok Happy Pe Day!
They have a day for everything anymore don't they. lol

Sayid'sgirl said...

I've got to start typing slower.
that would be Happy Pie Day!

memphish said...

Yep, you've all left me behind in things astronomical and navigational, but I do know it's National Pie Day.

Codysmom said...

LOL, memphish. "Perform Random Acts of Pieness".... I'll let you have my pie (being good on the ol' diet). AND, btw.................


NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

ular97 said...

I went off on one of my exploring trips. Put in the letters Shimmr..found a game site so I had to stop and play a couple of game. LOL The I put in the six numbers. One came up as a tracking a UPS package..one that came up the package had not been sent. Oh well...wasn't expecting one anyway. The a site that said noaa/weather data for marine something. I went to that and it was a whole page of numers of every day of Dec. 2007 and in among those letters were the six. I couldn't make heads nor tails of it though. So off again to read, hunt and click.

Sayid'sgirl said...

That's the fun thing about these games. You go to a website looking for something and it leads you to another and another. And you learn all kinds of stuff.

Capcom said...

"Ymmmmm, piiiiiiiies," said Homer. :o)

You're all very right, I haven't learned this much interesting stuff from TV since the X-Files was on, but that was mostly about historical mythology and Area 51. But there was a lot of DNA sciencey info mixed in as well. Then before that, I used to watch Mr. Wizard on Nickelodeon when I was getting ready for work at 6a.m. :o) It's a lot more fun this way though, with all the LoCo's input!!

FYSB said...

I don't know if this adds anything to the conversation, but did anyone read Timeline by Michael Chrichton? These scientists had discovered a wormhole or something that they could use to move objects to another time. They kept sending a camera back and having it take pictures, but they didn't get anything useful until they pointed the camera up and took a picture of the night sky. They used the position of the stars to figure out what date it was on the other side of the wormhole.

Capcom said...

FYSB, why couldn't they tell "when" the camera was at by other clues, like the people and clothes, etc.? Did it just not get anything like that?

That's an interesting premise, I'll have to check that book out. Might be pertinent to Lost, who knows? Maybe the DI tried something like that. Or, they sent Bunny15 thru with a camera. :o)

FYSB said...

It was a clearing in the woods...no people or animals or Starbucks. But the position of the stars told them it was the year 1312 or something like that.

If these are star coordinates, maybe we have to work backwards to figure out the when.

It's a really fun popcorn book, capcom. The movie wasn't so great though.

ular97 said...

I came across this map. Look at the
east and west on it.

http://www.astronomy.org/StarWatch/August/index-8-98.html#8-30-98

Capcom said...

Ha! Miss Cleo!! I just saw that. :o)

FYSB said...

If the game keeps going this way, we may just need her help.

ular97 said...

I found a location giving a Time Odyssey trilogy by C. Clark. I wrote that info down so I could check on those books out this weekend at Barnes and Noble at the mall; add Timeline to the list too.

Twinkle said...

Good work, ya'll! I haven't fully combed the comments but it looks like you've been busy. My first though after reading those e-mails was that Tracey wants to be in Sam's family. She's going over to his Mum's for Christmas, wanting a gift from him, doing all these favors. Oh yeah, Tracey wants to be the next Sonya and Sam can't see it. Then I find out that the coded e-mail said, "Love you madly." Hmmm....

Twinkle said...

As for the mystery numbers, I guess we wait to see what we're told to do with them. It's doubtful they are for Sam or that he'll find them given the circuitous way we did. But the e-mail message, I wonder what he'll make of that?

maven said...

Kirsten: Good observation about the manifest pictures. Why would Sun's the only one with numbers? Where they always there? The bigger question is: Why does Sam have this manifest with these particular people in it, and where did he get the photos (besides the ABC Publicity Department)? You would think he got the info from something he hacked when he was at Oceanic, but why only these people (other than they're the stars of a TV show)?

I read that Timeline book a long time ago, FYSB. The film they made of it was very disappointing. Didn't it also deal with you shouldn't mess with time and the universe course corrects?

And a Happy Pie Day to all!

Codysmom said...

twinkle, interesting theory about Tracey, but I don't get the same feeling. It seems you're assuming Tracey is the one sending the coded messages and I'm not so sure about that.

Carol Dunstan said...

8o I really don't know that I should be credited on the front page... Maven had already mentioned that people over at Dark (I think) said it was related to the poem... I was thinking it was in a different manner but did pick up on the add then divide bit so mentioned that. I had ended up going to wiki and looking up Sigma and found out what Kyle mentioned (summation). But my adding must suck because my first two answers weren't whole numbers so I couldn't think of where they would go after that!

oodles I'm glad you were able to fix your find815 problems, we didn't use Zonealarm for very long!

Fenris, your comment about HMS Mir made me go and look it up and I find stuff about it's deorbit... but ular beat me to it, LOL

I'm trying to get through re-watching Farscape (finally got Peacekeeper Wars for Christmas) so I can begin on LOST. I don't have a chance now to finish LOST by the time the series starts up again, but something is better than nothing. Not helping with the game at all though...

maven, the way I think about it is when the plane was reported missing the media would have been digging up all sorts of stuff about the passengers and crew, photos being one. Though they shouldn't look like they were taken by the same photographer... suspension of disbelief I think!

ular97 said...

I got the numbers 10531055060 and the word Polorid from Sun's pic. but some one else got 10531065060

Carol Dunstan said...

oh, and it wouldn't be right for me to start the day without an OT post... SHIMMR makes me think of the Rimmer Song...

ular97 said...

I even went to the old site of letyourcompassguideyou to see if it would work and maybe you could do some number thing or something with it. It is still showing a snowman on the beach and has been removed.

Capcom said...

Right Carol, S.O.D. really needed with those pix! Also, as to why Sam knows that he only needs pix of those particular survivors in the show, and not others on the plane. *snicker*

ular97 said...

Me thinks Sam has been watching the same TV Program we are so involved in. Wonder what that could be? LOL

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I did not read the entire DocArzt review of Episode 1, as linked on Lostpedia, but I read the first few paragraphs. I read through the point where Doc expresses his concerns about the storytelling in this upcoming season, and how, after watching this ep, his fears were totally misplaced.

It was just enough to boil my enthusiasm right the heck over. EEEEE!!

Twinkle said...

codysmom: I agree in that I had no suspicion that Tracey R might be sending the coded messages. In fact I still doubt it. I just thought it was interesting that the order of thinking for me today went 1) "Tracey sure sounds like she'd like to be even more chummy with Sam," then 2) "Oh, Sam just got a lovey dovey message," 3) "Could there be more to this Tracey thing?"

Looking forward to finding out more! It's just this week and next left, right! Come on! Pieces should start fitting together, not just be more pieces!

maven said...

Right, twinkle! Next week should be really busy game-wise because it has to end 2 hours before the show on a Thursday (not Friday). Now I wonder if that's going to be eastern time, and I hope they don't reveal too much since we have to wait 5 hours to see the show on the west coast. It's always been so tough for me knowing you guys are discussing away, while I have to stay off-line! :(

Codysmom said...

LOL, twinkle, I suppose it couldn't sound any more soap-opera"ish" than my way-out story of Talbot being Peter Talbot's brother out looking for revenge by going after Cooper (from a previous post I made). I really don't get the feeling of Tracey and Sam being any more than friends.

Kyle, at the moment I'm so afraid of spoilers I'm not going to any other site than here, but thanks for the EEEEEEEE.... now I'm getting really excited, too!

ular97 said...
I got the numbers 10531055060 and the word Polorid from Sun's pic. but some one else got 10531065060

That was me and I'm sticking to my numbers, but I don't have any idea if they are significant.

OT, and maybe you've discussed already, but in going through the videos again I noticed a star tatoo on Sam's arm. Could it be a hint at him being on the show?

oodles said...

What if ....
THEORY MODE ON
... the secret messages are being sent by Sonya (assuming she is one of the tailies who was captured by the Others and has access to communication equipment). She put Sam on the right path and now she has identified herself to him with the "Love you madly". She now sends him some kind of cryptic instructions to make sure he really finds what he is supposed to find near Bali despite the electromagnetic interference at the Sunda trench. My guess is she's picked up on the fact that the world thinks they are all dead at the bottom at the ocean. She wants him to find out that the whole "finding the wreck of Flight 815" was an incredibly elaborate hoax and that she is indeed alive somewhere not too far from Fiji. She knows where she is as she is familiar with celestial navigation and she also knows that the island cannot be found by simply heading towards it. So she needs to communicate to Sam (a) that she is indeed alive (b) where she is and (c) that he has to use celestial navigation to get there.
She cannot do this overtly, as if found out she will be cut off from communication.
THEORY MODE OFF

Now you can all pick holes into the theory ;)

Twinkle said...

Oodles, I like it!

Codysmom said...

Oh, boy... theories (IMO way more fun than numbers)...

I like it, Oodles! The only hole I can see is that at this time (I think) they haven't yet done the hoax of finding the 815 at the bottom of the ocean; they've only just now called off the search...

scoutpost said...

First of all, how old do you have to be to be in the "old broad club" because I'm thinking that you all are not that old!

Second, yes- these games are a total learning experience for me too. Kind of like when I was a kid and would look up something in the encyclopedia and then read it for hours. Yes I am a nerd, I just admitted to reading encyclopedias as a kid.

re: the numbers on Sun's picture- I 'm pretty sure they were always there. I remember reading something (probably on Dark's site) about Sun's pic and I think part of it was about the numbers. The other part was about the fact that her picture is like the back of a Polaroid pic- which someone found interesting.

Perhaps the food drops come via wormhole.

Ok so we have some numbers, the phrase LOVE YOU MADLY (via Sun), and the numbers on Sun's picture...wonder if they are all connected some way.

Sayid'sgirl said...

oodles
So do I!

ular97 said...

At this point, all theories are good theories to me.

Codysmom...you are probably rith with your numbers. My eyesight is lacking. LOL

Sayid'sgirl said...

scoutpost
I think we can make you a junior member of the club. :)

scoutpost said...

Well, if "love you madly" is a message from Sonya, then we should find out as soon as Sam decodes the email. You would think that he would recognize it as something she would say or something.

My question about the theory is: why would Sonya have knowledge about celestial navigation? I mean I guess she could as much as anyone else. But I think it would be a little weird. 2nd- do you think she has had enough time to figure out that the island can't be seen/found normally, as well as it's location?

scoutpost said...

sayid's girl-
well I am about to turn 40....sigh.

memphish said...

Tracey is the one who gave Sam the Sunda facts link right? Or is it just the case that Sam found it on his own?

Sayid'sgirl said...

40's a piece of cake. It's was turning 50 that made me sigh.

memphish said...

We've talked about these messages and vision of Sonya reminding us of Walt. I guess we need to remember that Walt's communications led to nothing but trouble for the 815 survivors, first Shannon's death then Michael's nutso S2 behavior. Even though TPTB have confirmed Walt was contacting Michael I think it's clear that the message was either dictated or intercepted by the Others and turned to their purposes. We should probably warn Sam.

FYSB said...

Forty are surprisingly great scoutpost. You're more relaxed and much less concerned about inconsequential things. And a lot more things seem inconsequential.

And put me in the "read the encyclopedia as a kid" club. I feel a bit sorry for the kids these days as they only have the internet to educate them. ;>)

And I bet Sonya learned celestial navigation from playing ARGs.

maven said...

Scoutpost: We'll gladly have in the club, although you'd be the baby of the group! LOL

Love those theories! I, too, wonder why Sonya would be an "expert" in celestial navigation (unless being an employee of an airline and a stewardess might have awaken that interest in her). Of course, we've never seen anyone being "chummy" with Cindy, so we haven't seen a Sonya on the island. Plus, she'd have to spend a lot of time on whatever communication equipment she could get her hands on to mastermind (haha - one of our games) all these clues. It would be a great ending if Sam finds Sonya and they live happily ever after (except probably for Tracey).

oodles said...

Good point codysmum. Have we any way of establishing Sam's current time?
Anthony Cooper appeared on the island on December 12, 2004 and already knew about the Bali site. So the death of all passengers was common knowledge by then. Sam's mum has invited Tracey for Christmas dinner, and Sam already knows he's not going to be home for Christmas, so we can't be too far off Christmas 04.
Perhaps the Christine I is the ship that will make the alleged discovery of the sunken airplane? The game is called Find 815 after all....

"why would Sonya have knowledge about celestial navigation?"
Perhaps because unlike Scoutpost she picked stuff up from her dad who was a captain and knew how to navigate by the stars? It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

The mountainous terrain (site of numerous DHARMATEL relays, according to the blast door map) that presumably surrounds the radio tower was also suspected of being the site of DI/HG's "meteorological research" and "weather forecasting project." Those endeavors would certainly involve night sky examination. If Sonya is alive, and has been impressed (the nautical meaning) by the Others, then she'd likely have been trained in something similar.

memphish said...

Or maybe that's the reason the Others put her on their list.

Ellen said...

Ular-I followed the link you gave earlier to the starmap. I've been studying it-very interesting (especially the Scorpius configuration). I think that might be similar to the configuration that the numbers would make if mapped out on a grid-(from a comment posted at Dark's site). Don't think that's a spoiler, but if it is, sorry, I'll delete this comment. If not, GOOD FIND, Ular!!
xxoo

Codysmom said...

LOL, scoutpost, you're turning 40? You're just a baby (take it from me who's in the over 50 group). I agree, you can be a "junior member"..

ular, my eyes have been crossing ever since I started this find815 thing:)

memphish said...
Tracey is the one who gave Sam the Sunda facts link right? Or is it just the case that Sam found it on his own?

Sam found out about Sunda Trench in the first e-mail from "unknown"... the one where "unknown" says they were friends with Sonya and thought he'd like the picture he/she found.... from the first activity.. zoom on pic of Sonya and find Black Rock, Sunda Trench, Christiane 1, Tell no one, Grave Consequences. All the cryptic messages have come from "unknown". With this Walt Whitman poem (and the interesting anagram of Man with Walt) it really makes me wonder. Is Jacob with Walt? Who's trying to orchestrate this whole thing? Only someone like Jacob or an Other would have personal info like the fact that "Love You Madly" might get a real reaction from Sam. You may be right that we should warn Sam.

Oodles, you make good points on the timing of this..

Ange said...

Hey gang.

Ular97 and Cody's Mom: The numbers on Sun's picture have always been there although I see different numbers than you mention. They were posted on Dark UFO January 5. but the post involves the words "decompiled flash" so I am not going to link it here, but googling Sun's numbers should do the trick.

This is a great discussion today. I for one will be excited in the missing images come in to play as I have been bothered by them from the beginning.

Carol: Yes, you do deserve main page credit ;).

Per the numbers and the ASCII etc, I understand where that all fits, but how about the letters at the top of each column? a-f, how do those fit in?

Also, I can buy that LOVE YOU MADLY is a message from Sonya, but this other stuff makes no sense:
1. Bali Holiday Fun gave us an e-mail which gave us a web address to a stegged picture.
2. Clues that lead us to the solution for the stegged image come from comments at Dark UFO and images that Sam is participating in, not in anything that he would actually see.
3. We get a poem that tells us about stars and some numbers on Sam's laptop.

Of all of this the only thing that Sam could see are the laptop numbers and the steg. picture. BUT there isn't any mail in his inbox from Mr. Ole, so for all we know he didn't even go to the site and send the mail ("I'm not going to follow up on the holiday tip"). Unless tonight we find out that he had the Openstego password all along per a prior arrangement with Tracey or the e-mail hasn't appeared yet.

All of this leads me back to thinking that none of this is for Sam but for us...and again back to my idea that what we are seeing has already happened, Sam has met his fate, and we are being shown things by an outside source who is manipulating us into thinking we are helping Sam and/or trying to show us what really happened to him.

Twinkle said...

Yes, ange. It must've been you that clued me into that possibility a few days ago. It could just be TPTB communicating tidbits to the fans or it could be a separate storyline. Someone from the show or Lost universe is communicating with people in 2008 about Sam's story which happened around the time some Losties got "rescued." It's a very intriguing possibility.

Ellen said...

Ange-I definitely agree with your last sentence.
xxoo

oodles said...

Great analysis, Ange.
Re the timeline: I was pretty confident about Dec. 04 (well actually I still am). However, I just realized that the Oceanic Press Statement and hence the Website (which Sam proceeded to hack) announcing resumed service dates from 28 Dec. 2007. There is something out of whack here. Surely he wouldn't start looking for her 3 years after it was announced that the plane with all passengers dead was found near Bali. And the airline would not have waited 3 years to resume service. 3 months, more like. I think this may be an error on the game creators part? After all, they removed the reference to the 2004 (Dec 26) Tsunami from the Sunda trench map as well. Because if Sam moves in pre-Christmas 2004 time, it has not yet happened!

maven said...

Great analysis, Ange. Someone (maybe Tracey) is really the one telling the story of what happened to Sonya and Sam (Although why it is dragged out for 5 weeks wouldn't be something I would do! Although, what Sam uncovers could only be told in this fashion for the protection of certain people). Sam is only getting bits and pieces of what we are getting. There's is no way he got info from OurMutualFriend on a blog! I still feel this happened in Dec 2004 right before Christmas and will coincide with the beginning of S4. We left our gang on Dec. 23rd, 2004 making contact with the freighter. That's why I'm getting more and more excited that the Christiane I is going to show up somehow in S4.

maven said...

The time line stuff has always been a problem for a lot of people. We've constantly been told that "time moves in different ways on the island". Boy, is that an understatement. Time is twisted up and contorted all over the place! LOL I just guess we have to suspend our conceptions of a linear time and accept what they're giving us.

jess4ua said...

It is hard to believe that TPTB have made such an error in time. If they have, well we will find out eventually. For now, considering Sam's hack of flyoceanicair.com, I have to agree that Sam has already done all of this in the game. Perhaps it is even Sam himself, in today's time, showing us what happened and leading us to himself, or something else even. It doesn't make sense that the baliholidayfun.com stuff is from Sonya. It does make sense that the coordinates and the Loveyoumadly are from her. I think we are definitely getting info from two separate sources.

memphish said...

I like the idea that Tracey or maybe even a rescued Sonya (no I don't really think that) is in 2007/8 telling us Sam's story which occurred in Nov/Dec 2004. That could explain the extra messages to us, and we all know how easy it is to create a misleading identity on Facebook and MySpace. I wonder if it's a 3rd party telling his story because he gets wiped out in the Tsunami. :-(

oodles said...

Guys,
check this out (and ourmutualfriend42's other new pics)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22766193@N08/2213580598/
Woman pictured against picture of big dipper.
There is some writing on the carry belt. < HO(or Q)PW ?? >8
Caption "Perfect Silence" (>Poem), Tag "Shimmr"

jess4ua said...

oodles, where did you get the info from?

ular97 said...

Well I may not have solved any of the game questions, but I finished the last level of my 7 Wonders game for the computer. I have been trying to finish the last level for ages and always timed out or something. Now it is a let down because I beat the game. Is that how we will feel when this game of lost ends? Sort of sad and what do I do now?

oodles said...

@jess4ua
I checked out the flickr site after it was mentioned by Donnie at the Find815 blog.

ular97 said...

I looked at the site. I didn't derive any pertinate information from it.

Lost 2010 said...

Wow. You guys have much better eyes than I do. Even in the enhanced picture, I can't make out the numbers that need to be added and divided. Good work!

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