Sunday, 27 January 2008

Chapter Four Summary - Light and Shadows

Sam's Story
  • Sam tricks Ockham into thinking the plotter has a fault and while "fixing" it he uses a nifty little program on his pen drive to give him access and locate the coordinates. Turns out to be right in Talbot's search grid.
  • Unfortunately for Sam, while he fooled Ockham, Talbot is more suspicious and finds the piece of paper that Sam had carelessly left lying around. Talbot gives him a warning "You have no idea what your involved in" he says.
  • Sam counters by telling Talbot he was given the co-ordinates by the Maxwell group. Strangely Oscar isn't phased. "Stay away from those coordinates, you won't find what you're looking for."
  • Returning to his cabin, Sam finds a voice mail. Seems Sam isn't as broke as he thought he may be. An investment in a box company has come through, or so he is told by Richard who works for a person named Randy. The news is a welcome break for Sam.
  • More Good news for Sam turns up in the form of an email from Tracey. She seems to have smoothed things over with Sam's Mum and has even agreed to spent Christmas with her.
  • However things then take a bad turn. Sam receives another mystery email. This time containing a code (hidden in anagrams of numbers that then convert to letters of the alphabet). The message is "Love you Madly" something he and Sonya used to say to each other all the time.
  • Later during one of Sam's night time strolls on the deck he spots something glowing off in the distance.He grabs a pair of binoculars and gives it a closer look. It looks like some kind of Aurora.
  • Sam returns to his cabin to look into it. He emails Tracey who tells him (after joking about aliens from the planet Zubelleedubelee), that it probably was an Aurora, although she found it odd that it faded away so quickly. She speculates that it could be related to the strange mishap on the bridge the other day.
  • Following on from this Sam looks up some information online on Aurora's and finds a website on the phenomenon of the Aurora Australis (the Southern version of the Aurora Borealis).
  • Sam is having mixed feelings. Are people just messing with his head? He doesn't know, but he knows he misses Sonya and thinks about her all the time. He has decided to continue to help "these people" to find The Black Rock in the hopes that they will give him what he wants in return.

The Clues


Behind The Scenes

  • We finally have the password (X4x98adfo97)to the hidden message in the stegosaurus picture from last week. This was provided via more braille characters hidden in this weeks opening video. The hidden message was binary code which when translated turned out to be a Walt Whitman Poem title "When I heard the learn’d astronomer". Seems Sam won't be following up on Tracey's "Holiday tip", so he will probably never find this out.
  • There is hidden text in the background of one of the websites on Sam's laptop (Sunda Trench). There are columns of numbers under the headings of the letters A to F. When each column is added and divided by six they give: a: 115 b: 104 c: 105 d: 109 e: 109 f: 114. These numbers can then be converted into ASCII characters and these come out as: S H I M M R. What this means remains to be seen.
  • Camp Millar - This comes from hazy sources, but is allegedly hidden in a code on the label to the pill bottle from the clue hunt.
    • Commenter Oodles guided us toward how this clue was solved. ~Ange
  • The passwords for this weeks clue hunt were: Miles Straume and Frank Lapidus (SPOILER ALERT: If you google this, you WILL be spoiled).

The other characters

  • Oscar Talbot - Didn't seem surprised to hear Sam has been getting information from the Maxwell Group. He also seemed to know what the coordinates were all about.
  • Mr. Ockham - Hardly present this week and seems Sam can easily pull the wool over his eyes.
  • Tracey R - Seems willing to do a lot for Sam, including stay with his Mum for Christmas.
  • Sam's Mum - Still worried about Sam but has Tracey looking after her now.
  • Richard and Randy - We don't know much about these two except that Randy seems to be Sam's accountant and Richard works in his office.

Unless there is a false ending at the conclusion of the supposed final chapter, next weeks summary will be the last. So that will be posted followed by a retrospective the following day. To end this week I leave you with a quote:

"Stars hide your fires! Let not light see my black and deep desires."

179 comments:

memphish said...

Nice summary Fenris. One thing in particular stood out to me and that was Talbot telling Sam to stay away from those coordinates. Given that those coordinates are close to the search area if not downright in them that doesn't make sense unless Talbot knows someone else is busy planting freckage at that location.

I also wonder if it wasn't Talbot himself who sent the "Love You Madly" email to mess with Sam's head. It probably wouldn't take to much effort to discover that phrase was significant to the 2 of them. Sam himself might even revealed it in his earlier campaign against Oceanic.

Oodles, I agree with most of your theorizing on the previous post though I don't think it's Widmore staging the freckage I think it's Ben's group Mittelos, Herarat or some other entity they've created. As for the auroras and magnetism, etc. in Sam's location I think that's just supposed to point us to those concepts.

Ellen said...

Excellent as always, Fenris!
xxoo

Fenris said...

Thanks Memphis

I have wondered why anyone would want to stage a freckage near to the probably location of the island. Bit too risky. If Maxwell is getting too close and this will throw them off, perhaps it could be the Others.

But then does that mean the Others are contacting Sam via Maxwell to get him there and is Oscar working with them? He seems to know Sam is getting help. If Maxwell knows the Others are trying to stop them, then surely the freckage wouldn't throw them off anything. Which suggests either he is on board, or it is nothing to do with the Others. Either way it looks quite possible that Talbot is the inside contact all along. Maybe the "Love you Madly" was because he felt Sam needed a kick to keep his passion running high.

It does look very much like Sam is simply a patsy.

Fenris said...

Thanks Ellen. :)

Ange said...

Excellent summary as usual Fenris!

Per the previous comments:
Oodles: I agree with your theories. Your scenario meshes nicely with what's being shown to us. Great thinking! Per the chat room information, I'm not sure what to make of that. We were specifically told that there would not be in-game information given in chat.

Memphish pointed out yesterday that these are things that many fans have come up with or speculated about since Lost began.

So (real/or not) it may give us some neat ideas to look at and not actually develop Sam's story any further.

But I do agree that it is interesting and might be connected to the little side-bar game they seem to be including here.

4 days 10 hours and 45 min until Lost!

memphish said...

Ange and Oodles, I think all the "chat" stuff at Dark's site this morning is someone trying to cleverly pass along info. they think might be relevant. I ran into the Eldredge stuff last summer when I was playing along with Sledgeweb's hunt. I also recall that the LOSTCasts guys have spent a lot of time since S2 working on various Philadelphia Experiment theories. It's not very many clicks from the info. we've discussed over here for the last couple of weeks to those wiki pages. The UFO stuff is reminiscent of DJ Dan as well. Sigh. I miss DJ Dan.

maven said...

Fenris: Great job! One doesn't have to play along all week...just show up here on Sunday and everything is in one place to keep you up-to-date!

Oodles: Really like your take on what's happening here. Also, think that all the science stuff we've gotten in this game is probably put there to give us fanatics the real world science to begin relating it to what's happening on the island and the possibilities to explain the strange things going on there. I'm not sure that all the electromagnetism stuff, Maxwell research Sam's looked at, aurora australis stuff really relates to Sam's actual story...it's put there to get us thinking. I guess it's worked! LOL

There are all different ways to look at the story itself. I think those coordinates Sam got are leading him to the freckage. It wouldn't work in the time line that they would lead to the island...I think the "aurora" that Sam saw was the after effects of the hatch imploding (screwing up the monitors on the bridge), so Penny's people at Camp Millar couldn't have gotten the island's coordinates yet. I like the idea that Ben's group is behind the freckage fronted by Mittelos. They could have planted the coordinates in emails to Sam because they have infiltrated the Maxwell Group through Widmore Industries. I think Talbot is in on the whole thing and is stringing Sam along so when they "accidently" discover the freckage it will look even more legitimate. The Black Rock is probably a cover story. And the freckage is conveniently found in a very deep ocean trench...unsalvageable for confirmation.

Capcom said...

Perfect summary once again Mr. Fenris! Like I said before, even to someone who's not playing anymore, it makes it possible to follow the game and info as if I were. :-) Also, good work everyone.

Thanks for the commentary info from the last post Memphish! Would you believe that I haven't even opened up my S3 DVD yet? I know, shameful.

Re: Sam's auroral sighting and the day/night discrepancy of the Swan blowing...maybe any time the counter went to hieroglyphics and the magnetism went into overload, it caused an aurora over the island as well? Then you hit the button and poof!, it's gone, much like what Sam saw. Didn't the counter get critical once for Locke? I seem to recall him sitting there with his finger hovering over the button deciding whether to hit it or not, maybe the first time after Dez left.

memphish said...

I rewatched "Greatest Hits" this morning. Vis a vis timeline, the freckage has to be found with enough time before Naomi's landing on Island for her to know this:

Naomi: You're the dead rock star. They made a big deal out of you when they found the plane. Huge memorial service, new album.
Charlie: There's a new album?
Naomi: Yeah, God it was everywhere...a greatest hits thing.


Seems to me that would place it closer to November than to Xmas, but Sam's timeline seems closer to Xmas. Of course, it's all vague enough to go either way.

I assume Tracey would contact Sam via email and his mum would call if the plane had been found.

jess4ua said...

Hi everyone!

Just wanted to let you know that we are still working on a post to try and help explain some of the scientific theories and how they might apply to the story.
It is taking a little longer than expected because the more we dig, the more confusing it gets. But I think we have the basics narrowed down and are working to make it "understandable".

I am really confused about what this game is leading us to as well. I think it is weird that the island would be in the Sunda Trench. However, the island would explain the electromagnetic disturbances and the aurora(will be explained in post). Also, I am still on the boat with the theory that the Block Rock got to the center of the island from a Tsunami. The Sunda Trench would explain that as well. All in all I think we are missing information that would lead us one way or the other. Maybe something will come out of the game this week to help tie it all together.

memphish said...

Capcom asked: Didn't the counter get critical once for Locke?

It got critical when Sayid was torturing Henry Gale and Jack made Locke open the armory door. That was when we got our first, brief look at the hieroglyphics.

maven said...

Yes, Memphish: People would be contacting Sam if the freckage was in the news! The time line we're getting is so very vague...there has been no reference to any actual date except for Christmas.

Lostpedia has "Greatest Hits" taking place on Dec. 22nd. Even with Naomi talking about Drive Shaft's resurgence, the finding of the freckage could have been located in the beginning of December.

Capcom said...

Thanks Memphish! Now, if anyone wants to match up that timeline with Sam's possible timeline from what we know to see if they mesh...heheheh.

It sounds perfectly feasible that the Black Rock got moved via some megawave action somewhere along the line Ange. Don't know if it could be from the last tsunami though, unless it's in phase with Danille's finding it. Do we know when she found it and started playing with the dynamite? It's got a lot a vegetation on it, but that could be partially left over from the wave too maybe. Just asking out loud.

BTW, great work on all the Admins' part Ange. :-)

Capcom said...

BTW, I wonder what is the minimal possible amount of time that the record industry could press out a bunch of CDs of a dead guy to cash in on his demise? :o)

maven said...

Anxiously awaiting enlightenment, Jess and Ange! LOL

I, too, would find it strange if the island is around the Sunda Trench. Like I've said before in many different ways...this game is called FIND815...not FINDTHEISLAND. All the science stuff is being dropped and hidden in the this game to begin explaining the real things behind the strange things in the show (something Darlton has always said). I think the game is taking place in December (obviously before Christmas), Sam is supposed to find the freckage to add credence to what Naomi had said. Maybe the ending to the game will find Sam somehow figuring out that the freckage is a fake and Talbot is all part of a coverup. He will still believes Sonya is alive somewhere. Onto the the island!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Great summary as always fenris.
Thank you.
Here's my take on Sam's story.
I don't think Talbot is an employee of the Maxwell Group. I think he stole the briefcase with the Maxwell papers in it. He knows what the Maxwell Group is up to which is to find he island again. They know the Black Rock is on the island. This is why Talbot tells Sam he won't find what he's looking for. I mean if Sam does find the freckage then he'll think he has found what he's looking for. He's looking for flight 815. Is the freckage or the island at the coordinates that the Maxwell Group gave Sam? Talbot may be working for Ben to prevent the Maxwell Group (possible former Dharma)from finding the island or he could be working for someone else.

Then we have the season three finale. How does it tie in with Sam's story? Does it tie in with Sam's story?
The island is found, but by whom. Why did they let some of the castaways off. We're they acually let off? What kind of cover story are they using now to explain finding supposedly dead survivors. It's something, because Jack is tired of lying.
Oh and only 4 days 8 hours and 20 minutes till season four!!!

Capcom said...

I like the idea that Talbot is working for Ben, Sayidsgirl. That would explain his general crabbiness. :o) Richard seemed like the only Other (in an authoritative position) who wasn't crabby or mean or scary.

Sayid'sgirl said...

That's funny memphish I watched Greatest Hits TMBTC and the finale last night. Also I'm not questioning Lostpedia at all, but with my crazy math I got Dec. 20th for Greatest Hits. Jack said something "like" I've been making decisions for 90 days. So 90 days from Sept. 22nd would be Dec. 20st I thought. Anyway a couple of days here or there isn't really that important.
memphish said
Naomi: You're the dead rock star. They made a big deal out of you when they found the plane. Huge memorial service, new album.
Charlie: There's a new album?
Naomi: Yeah, God it was everywhere...a greatest hits thing.

The fact that she said yeah it was everywhere and the tone of her voice when she says it makes me think it had been awhile since it had been released. Which could be weeks or months (maybe years ;))

memphish said...

Capcom: Danielle implies that her team found The Black Rock before she killed them all. In Exodus Pt. 1 she says the Dark Territory is where her team got infected. I've always assumed they found the Black Rock too, but it could have been Danielle by herself later.

Ange: Doctor Arzt, the character not the blogger, suggested tsunami as well for explaining the Black Rock's locale. He says it's a couple of miles inland. Have you been hanging out with the science teachers?

Sayid's Girl, I could absolutely believe that Talbot stole the briefcase and plans. As for the explanation of how we get to the S3 flash forward, I can't wait to see, especially given the few hints Matthew Fox gave to EW.

Sayid's Girl also said:The fact that she said yeah it was everywhere and the tone of her voice when she says it makes me think it had been awhile since it had been released. Which could be weeks or months (maybe years ;)) Any time, eh SG?

maven said...

I don't anything about the record industry (among many other things), but I don't think it would take too long to put out a Greatest Hits album since all the cuts have been recorded already. It could have been done pretty fast by a sleezy record company trying to play off Charlie's death. Maybe could have happened one or two weeks and put out the same time as Charlie's memorial. Everything is so vague...

Sayid'sgirl said: Is the freckage or the island at the coordinates that the Maxwell Group gave Sam?
I really think the coordinates are for the freckage. I don't think Penny got coordinates for the island yet...the monitors going bonkers and the aurora leads me to believe that the hatch imploding occurs then.

Also, I can really go with Talbot stealing the info. Why else would he have AMM's briefcase? He could be working for Mittelos/Ben.

Ange said...

Update: No clues in chat from Dark UFO...looks like we were right to be skeptical.

I'm looking forward to this week and seeing how this game all winds up. With the Maxwell site to go live (according to the log in) on February 1, it seems likely that our endgame will come during the finale of Lost, and then carry over to that site for a final piece of some kind. Exciting!

Also, Jess and I are still working, but I found some things about tides that I found interesting. It's from wiki so take it as you will, but here is the entry. I thought specifically the areas of "Tidal Power Generation" "Tides and Navigation" and "Biological Aspects" are worth skimming.

Sayid'sgirl said...

memphish
yeah anytime lol

maven good point Penny probably doesn't have the coordinates yet. But do you think someone else could?

Capcom said...

Good points about the sci-team Memphish, you're right it could be that. Heheh, maybe the Others were hiding in the Black Rock with their blowdarts ready when the sci-team got there! THOOOP! "Ow!"

I'm thinking that too Maven, about the CD. Since it's all pre-recorded like you said, it could be pretty easy to get it out fast...like, as long as it takes to laser it onto the CDs, and truck them to the stores and Amazon.com. Could be a matter of days. Having said that though, TPTB could be setting us up for a doozy, as to the "any time". :-D

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't think Penny is the one sending the coded emails.
Why would she care about flight 815 Desmond wasn't on it? Even if Sam finds the freckage he wouldn't find Desmond. And that wouldn't help Penny.

maven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maven said...

Right, Sayid'sgirl. I think that us finding out that Maxwell was a subsidiary of Widmore was a red herring to get us to think it was Penmy sending the emails. I think it's someone orchestrating this whole thing so that the freckage is "accidently" discovered. Manipulation and orchestrating of events is a trait from someone we know so well...Ben!

Capcom said...

Yes, the more you guys (ladies) say it, the more I like the idea that Ben is a part of Sam's experience!

Patch said...

Good morning all. I missed heaps of great discussion yesterday by the look of it. You guys are all amazing!

Fenris, thank you for another really entertaining summary! Love the Macbeth quote at the end. :)

Ange and Jess, it sounds like you're both tying yourselves up with trying to sort out all the science stuff. Don't forget to eat and sleep ok? :)

Off to catch up on what I've missed.

Ellen said...

memphish-watched TMBTC with commentary as you suggested! Sheesh...and I really need to do that more...thanks again for that helpful suggestion!
xxoo

Ellen said...

OT-Maven-your quilts are awesome! I'm just a beginner...working on my 5th quilt, but gosh I sure love it! I want to make a LOST quilt! yea!!
;D xxoo

Lost 2010 said...

But the minute the plane crashed the record co. execs would have started working on that Charlie's Greatest Hits Album. A big bonus to them that they found the wreckage and got even more free publicity. If they started putting it together as soon as the plane crashed, it may have been ready to roll out on the shelves by the time the plane was found. . .

maven said...

Lost2010: Excellent point! And with Charlie's memorial, they could sell even more!

Thanks, Ellen. There was talk of a LOST=themed quilt back in the TLE days. Someone called TallGuy (I think) did some artwork of all the characters. I did DL them and I saved them somewhere, and that's as far as it got. There was also a time we were going to put one together to auction off for breast cancer, but that got nowhere, too!

Yes, Ange and Jess: Take plenty of breaks and snacks and drink a lot of water...you guys are taking on a humongous task!

Twinkle said...

And here I thought nothing would be happening today because it's Sunday. Look at you all!

I'm also thinking along the lines of what many of you are thinking. One point about the Black Rock is that it sailed in the direction of the Sunda Trench and ended up on the island. I'm not sure a tsunami could carry it all the way to the other side of Australia.

What do you think about the closed timelike curve" theory and what it might say for Lost island time and location? I have to say it reminds me of the new Sesame Street website www.panwapa.com. They have a special island with strange creatures that floats all over the world. :-)

I think that the aurora Sam saw along with the clue leading us to the possible artic listening station on the same day means that Sam saw the remnant glow of the hatch imploding. The hatch imploded during the day so who knows how far the electromagnetic disturbance in the atmosphere would reach by night. I think Sam's going to find the freckage at the end of the ARG though. I think that whoever planted the freckage is also leading him there. Talbot is unintentionally or not playing devil's advocate to increase his fervor.

I'm leaning away from Talbot working for Ben. Last season was the season building up the Others. This season feels like it will be about outside forces getting the best of the Others. I'm included to think this whole thing isn't from them.

I think Penny doesn't know anything about what's happening in the ARG but I hope, after she talks to Charlie, that she charters the Christiane 1 to go out and take a look herself. That'd be some nice irony and a fun guest appearance for our grumbly ships's captain. I hope Penny and Desmond become caught in a CTC on the island, grow old together, and are Adam and Eve from the cave. :-)

I'm leaving room for a big twist though, like Talbot working for the Others after all. I hope it's something even more twisted though!

Twinkle said...

Oh, another theory is that the freighter is not how our Losties get rescued this season. All of us expect that will be their way out, so it makes sense to me that TPTB would have something different up their sleeves.

Ellen said...

Maven-J/K about the quilt! I know it would be just too difficult to find enough people with enough time to do something like that as a group! I love the idea tho...maybe a wall hanging? I think I just found my next project!

I absolutely am so grateful to all you guys (Ange, Jess, Fenris) for all your hard work. Thank you, thank you, and thank you again!

We have an amazing group, huh!?

:D xxoo

Capcom said...

Re: the Lost quilt; I submit that if the WGA causes us to have another huge hiatus after Ep.408, we should try to do that again. :-)

Ellen said...

*giggle* cap! me too, me too!!!
xxoo

maven said...

Capcom: There's a news blackout on the negotiations, but on Nikki Fink's site, she's said that sources told her it's going well. But it will take time for a contract to be voted on by the WGA membership and it will take time to get the LOST cast and crew back together. I heard that Jan 31st would be a cutoff date to finish the season. Unless, there's a miracle, I don't know if it's possible.

Twinkle said...

Thanks for the update on the strike, Maven.

Capcom said...

You're right, it's all about the lag time of starting back up again after the strike is ever over, that will be critical to determining when ANY shows will be up and running again! Production people must be chomping at the bit ready to go, but some things you can't hold around for too long, like rentals, and such. I mean, "such as". :o)

oodles said...

@Twinkle

"One point about the Black Rock is that it sailed in the direction of the Sunda Trench and ended up on the island. I'm not sure a tsunami could carry it all the way to the other side of Australia."

For reasons unknown, the ship left the port in an easterly direction from Papua New Guinea rather than going West towards Africa.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock
So it did not travel in the direction of the Sunda Trench, which makes the whole supposed salvage expedition rather fishy, if your excuse the pun ;)

Lost 2010 said...

The last mobisode airs tomorrow, right? Or are they already done with those?

Capcom said...

I hope that we get one more and they end with a shocker.

memphish said...

Yes, one last mobisode tomorrow. I hope it's up there with Room 23.

As for a drop dead date on the season, both Jorge and Michael Emerson have said publicly that they don't think it is until late Feb. even March. The writers know what happens in the next 8, and who knows the 9th might not take that long to write. Last year they were still shooting the season finale 7-10 days before it aired.

Capcom said...

Yoiks, I just rewatched Sam's 4th vid and he says that Sonya's all that he thinks about. Assuming that he is getting close to the island on the boat (all the "he's in the wrong area for the island" problems aside) maybe he's close enough for the island's Magic Box trick to work? Assuming that the whole thing works like that, or that Jacob can read people's minds and bring things, etc., ad nauseum. Just a dumb thought that crossed my mind after too much thinking. :-B

maven said...

Hey, guys: I just heard from Dennis (via email) that he's winding things down on CloverfieldClues and will back to give us a new post for next Wednesday!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Hey that's good news.
Only I'll be pulled between there with the enhanced finale. And here with the Wednesday update. lol

maven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maven said...

Sayid'sgirl: I guess I finally have an advantage for being on the west coast1 The update here should come at 6pm pst and then the enhanced show will be on at 9pm.

jess4ua said...

FINALLY!

Whew, coming up with simple explanations of the science theory was more difficult than Ange and I thought. However, it is finished! Everyone has to cut us a little slack though. Ange is a teacher and I have a degree in Economics, so I hardly think that qualifies us as "scientists". LOL! We did our best though. I am sure we do not understand everything, so we are VERY open to suggestions.
Also, We put it up in my blog so that we can easily change or add to it, or make new posts. You can find it HERE.
I hope this helps a little....

Lost 2010 said...

I don't have time to read it just now - but in just glancing over it, I applaud the tremendous effort you must have put into it. I can't wait to have time to dig in.

Patch said...

Thank you SO much Jess and Ange....now go and get some rest! *lol*

maven said...

WOW, Jess and Ange! Fabulous job. I posted a comment on that blog. Thanks again!

Carol Dunstan said...

great work everyone. I think a lot of us are of much the same opinion about the science as we understand it.

I'm itching for the game to get moving again, although I don't know that they can cram in all the excitement I want to happen this week! I have some rambling thoughts on a few things but I think it's best if I just don't type them out, but I can't wait to see what happens with Sam, can't wait to see what happens in the new episode of LOST, and can't wait to see what shows up on the Maxwell site (after all, we know jack about them).

I'm ever optimistic about the strike too. I was surprised when I read Jorge Garcia's comments about end of Feb being a cut off for them... I agree with Maven that having the series mapped out now is a huge help but I still would have thought they'd need a longer lead time. At ny rate, the sooner the better in my book

thewonderllama said...

about the timeline comments from a bit back, i'd figure that sam will find the freckage at the magic coordinates. i imagine the greatest hits bit/charlie's memorial will come out after that, a decent amount of time will pass, and then naomi crashes on the island. didn't darlton say something to imply that time is not passing the same for people on the island? also looking at naomi's high tech sat-phone (higher tech than 2004, right?) and what she said about the album suggests, i'd figure it's been at least a year or two.

now think about this...how long was naomi on the island before they called out to the freighter? a couple days? wasn't minkowski surprised they found her? if time on the island is slower than real world time...it's probably been...what...a week? since they heard from her? or are they close enough to the island bubble that they're not affected by the time skew?

just some food for thought...

Fenris said...

Well there was the whole "Lost Time" anagram clue and a few hints. It seems strange though because the Others have come and gone and Des came to the island and didn't that print out of his incident read the date of the crash?

Of course if time started messing up when the hatch blew up, that could work.

memphish said...

I would like for the time thing to be like that, but other things have happened in terms of flashbacks that make it seem time is passing at the same rate. #1 on the list is that Desmond and Jack's dates for their meeting at the stadium. Also Juliet seems convinced of her dating as well. The purpling could have changed things though.

The last mobisode. It's a doozy. That's a direct, spoiler-free link.

Sayid'sgirl said...

WOW!!
That certainly is a doozy.

oodles said...

woohoo!
That's something! And it explains some things (don't want to spoil things by saying what... later)
So where has he been hiding out all this time?

Lost 2010 said...

Wow. . . I don't really know what else to say, just . . .wow.

And I've always been in the camp of. . .well. . . again. . .just wow.

thewonderllama said...

!!!

???

?!?!?!?!

i love lost!

thewonderllama said...

what's the appropriate way to hide spoiler related discussion? i want to talk about the mobisode but not ruin it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet...

Lost 2010 said...

:) Usually, I switch to typing in white font and you have to highlight it to read, but I don't know the html for white, do you?

Lost 2010 said...

Oh yeah, and since the main board here is blue - I don't know if typing in white is a good way to hide it anyway.

ular97 said...

I haven't been online since Friday night when we got the weeks finale. You have all been doing a lot of thinking/brain storming. Thanks for keeping up the pace and giving out the great information and idea's to those of us who didn't do our share. LOL

thewonderllama said...

okay...i'll be really vague since even if i were to pick a color, it seems blogger wont allow me to use any tags/style attributes that set the color.

i think i caught a glimpse of someone who is not otherwise obviously in the mobisode and i think it's pretty relevant that that someone's there.

Lost 2010 said...

hmmm, I saw three, uh, main characters in there. Are you saying you saw a glimpse of a fourth?

thewonderllama said...

i see an important character at 0:16 from the link memphish sent. briefest of glimpses, but i'm pretty sure i'm seeing that character.

ular97 said...

I saw what you are talking about too, but I am not positive of it.

Twinkle said...

I've tried to set color and I can't. Love the mobisode! Hurry, everybody watch it so we can talk about it! :-)

Twinkle said...

I think I saw it too but freeze frame is too blurry to confirm. I'm sure someone at Dark will clear it up. If so, it would confirm where I think one of the other characters in the mobisode is coming from.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Wonder, I saw that too. However, no other evidence (again, being vague) from the clip suggests the same.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Oh, yeah, and color tags don't work. We tried this "way back" in the day when TLC first started up.

Lost 2010 said...

Just rewatched and I'm not seeing it. If anyone wanted to come over to my blog and clue me in, I'd be most appreciative. At what time can we reasonably assume most of the people that want to watch it have?

Twinkle said...

This link to Season 3 DVD extra Access Granted has some interesting information that bears upon the events seen in today's mobisode. Thanks, ange (I think?), for posting this a few days ago. I've found it most helpful.

Twinkle said...

Wait, it could have been memphish. Sorry! I forget.

memphish said...

Yeah Twinkle. Darlton have been insisting on that for some time now, so I'm not sure what to make of the mobisode.

Lost 2010 said...

Well, in the S3 extras they also said Mikhail was definitely dead twice so I'm thinking they are using their usual doublespeak.

Twinkle said...

Sounds to me like the island takes a very personal interest in those who come to it. :-) If that's saying too much feel free to tell me to delete.

Whenever I think of this aspect of Lost I remember the show Andromeda and how Trance was the very embodiment of a sun. Maybe island's can make embodiments too? Ok, it sounds loco, but I think there's something to the island consciousness theory.

Lost 2010 said...

twinkle - I have a feeling you may be right - of course I don't understand why the embodiment would take a form when there's noone there to see it.

maven said...

What a way to greet the morning! WOW, that mobisode opens up all kinds of questions! I, too, saw that "character" through the grass. The whole thing is almost spooky. Loved it!

Capcom said...

I agree Wonder, it really stood out to me too, but I can't hit the pause button quite right to get a good look, unless it's just too blurry in general. Vincent was lucky that he turned, maybe. :-)

Capcom said...

And yes, Lost2010, I can't make heads or tails of the whole "defintely dead" thing. It does not compute. Hopefully it will be clear sooner than later.

thewonderllama said...

hey, bptb (blog powers that be, heh), could we perhaps get a post for the mobisode with a note not to read the comments until you've seen it?

maven said...

Why is he there if Jack isn't? (Are we openly discussing this now?)

maven said...

Also, Jess/Ange: You should put a link to your Lost Thoughts blog on the main page! No one should miss it!

memphish said...

It's 7 minutes until noon East Coast and the link is way up above this comment now. I think we should open up discussion of the mobisode. I don't think we need a new thread since we'll need a new one for the game later tonight.

I agree about the Island having a consciousness, but why would it appear to Vincent as someone Vincent had never come into contact with before and then send Vincent to someone else Vincent had never had contact with before? I have to think the Island is communicating to Vincent on a level we can't see and hear, and the words and visual are just to help us out.

memphish said...

Also what does this mean for the empty coffin?

maven said...

Have to go out for a while (darn it!), so I'll leave the discussion for now...

thewonderllama said...

well, we've never seen a vision of anyone who isn't dead. it could be that smokey appeared as christian because he was one of the dead from the plane. and since he'd died before the crash, he wasn't in the process of dying even, he was dead as a doornail type dead and so smokey did whatever he does with corpses and picked a friendly (read: human instead of smoke monster) form to get vincent's attention. doesn't hurt that the person smokey wants vincent to find is christian's son.

thewonderllama said...

memphish: i think that smokey does something with bodies. remember how yemi's body disappeared? i wonder if they'll ever think to unearth the graves they've dug and see if any of the bodies are missing...and if anyone did it, you know it'd be sayid. :)

now i have to run to meetings...oh fun!

Lost 2010 said...

I think we're going to find out that the smoke's consciousness is the combined consciousness of the dead. The main body of the smoke picks 'delegates' to take human or animal form and go out to do it's work. I think Christian Shepard is in there somewhere. As is the marshal who manifested as Kate's horse, etc. etc.

yakobus said...

pretty sure shannon, sayid and Locke have all seen visions of Walt. he's not dead.... but Walt "is a very special boy"

Capcom said...

Some Qs come to mind for me...Obviously, it's a matter of it either being Smokey or CS somehow. And if Smokey is there, because it is Smokey and not CS, as someone said on Dark's comments, why would CS/Smokey say "My Son" when Yemi/Smokey (assuming) said that he was not Eko's brother? Those are retorical unanswerable Qs at this point, of course.

TPTB sure do know how to get us yapping about the show! :o)

Capcom said...

I like that theory Lost2010.

oodles said...

Something else, eh?
What came to my mind was that this explains a) the empty coffin and no body found in the jungle, and b) the fact that Jack in the "after the island" flash forward in the hospital talks about his father as if he is still alive.
Cuse's comment though is pretty unambiguous !?!

Twinkle said...

memphish said: why would it appear to Vincent as someone Vincent had never come into contact with before and then send Vincent to someone else Vincent had never had contact with before? I have to think the Island is communicating to Vincent on a level we can't see and hear, and the words and visual are just to help us out

Yes, to help us out. Also if the island had just delved into unconcious Jack's mind, it might enjoy toying around with some of the images it finds there. I think the island has been appearing to Vincent a lot. Isn't that the conventional mythology that animal's hear and see things we don't? Vincent has probably been on a visual basis with Jacob from the beginning. ;-) I also think that Jack might have "seen" in his mind the conversation in the woods before he woke up. Of course he wouldn't need that to look freaked out when he woke up.

The "my son" reference could be the island "trying on" the personality of the dead person. It could also be a reference to the possessiveness the island feels for its "chosen." If Jack was a chosen one, along with Locke, Walt, and previously Ben, etc..., then the "awful deal" we assume Jack, Kate, et al...have to make to get off the island might not be with humans but with the island itself.

Twinkle said...

I thought Kate's horse was real, like the polar bears are real?

Also Jack could have been referring to his father that way as a sign of his aggressive desire to shock people and to throw the fans off as to what was happening.

Sayid'sgirl said...

It looks like you are discussing what you are seeing here.
lost2010
I left a post on your blog.
Here's what I said
I paused it and couldn't see much it was pretty fuzzy.
I guess it could be the smoke monster.
Not knowing what I was looking for, I could see the profile of Jacob sort of.

Twinkle said...

Maybe both? Hey, I know! The smoke is the embodiment of the Black Rock dynamite! lol!

memphish said...

Twinkle said: Isn't that the conventional mythology that animal's hear and see things we don't? Locke even makes that explicit when he carves the doggie whistle to find Vincent.

I don't know what to make of Kate's horse. It doesn't really fit with the other crazy fits.

Oodles, re Jack's reference to his dad in the Flash Forward, the EW interview with Matthew Fox said that was just how crazy future Jack is. At least that's what Damon told MF in terms of how to play it. Damon could have been lying.

Ange said...

Yipes! You know though, my first instinct was that that was what Jack was thinking before he woke up, about his father. Like when you dream you hear a noise when actually its your alarm going off. I like the other possabilities WAY better though. I have always thought that guy was alive. Okay and did he have in sweat pants?

Capcom said...

Heheh, Ange, he's probably only dressed fancy from the top of the silk coffin blanket up, so as to defray the cost of burying an entire expensive suit. Good thing he wasn't nekkid from the waist down. :-B

Great science post too! I also commented on it over there.

Twinkle said...

What's with me apostrophizing plurals today? Sorry.

Remember Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bole and the psychic dogs? (TLE days) retrieversoftruth.com

Lost 2010 said...

I do think this island entity of black smoke has a bizarre sense of humor at times as well.

Twinkle said...

It's gone now though, except for the Lostpedia entry and any back-ups.

Fenris said...

Woah!

Okay, well that is certainly interesting. I'm way behind here. Curse of the UK and all, but just watched that mobisode. Well, I was in the Christian is alive camp, so I should be smug. But I have to agree with people that have said that probably wasn't Christian.

Likely the smoke as for why it would appear to Vincent like that, I would speculate that the forms it takes are much more then just an illusion, but rather it actually adopt characteristics/memories of that form (certainly the judgmental nature of it when it took Yemi's form could be attributed to him being a priest). Perhaps it's not even totally free with who's form it can take.

ular97 said...

If smokie and Jacob or more or less the same entity...when the Lord speaks in the bible it is my children, son, daughter, etc to all people. If smokie/Jacob is sort of the ruler of the island or looked up to as an entity. why couldn't it refer to Jack and others as my son or daughter?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Another thing I found interesting was Christian said his son had work to do.
Walt told Locke the same thing when he was in the Dharma mass grave.

Lost 2010 said...

And yet, why do I have a feeling that after Thursday we'll be no closer to figuring this all out than we are today?

jess4ua said...

WOW! That was awesome!
sayid's girl- Walt did say the same thing! I have a feeling that is not Christian, unless his body is possessed by someone else. If it were, why wouldn't he wake his son up. I think if I woke up alive, after being dead, I would be running around like a nutcase....I'm Alive! I'm Alive! ROFL! But that is just me. He just seemed very cool and collected for someone just back from the dead.
I saw Smokey too. When I pause it you kinda can see a human form as well. Maybe it is Smokey starting to take the shape of Christian. I have thought all along that Smokey was behind the "visions" somehow.
So to tie all that in, I must agree with Fenris, that Smokey is able to adopt the characteristics and memories of whatever form he takes. That probably changes, depending on what his purpose is.
Sometimes Smokey seems to be a huge creature smashing trees and making a ruckus, and other times he is quited and barely detectable. Well, unless those are two different entities all together.

Twinkle said...

lost2010: Exactly. They have two more years let, PTB willing. They won't be clearing up any big secrets any time soon, IMO.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

My only problem with the Smokey theory is that you still hear nature squeaking and chirping in the background. There's none of the associated silence, even before Vincent gets called to Christian, when we're thinking that the smoke might have been visible.

This is a ball of worms that we're just not equipped to untangle yet. But I love it!

oodles said...

Rewatching the mobisode, what strikes me is how Christian stands there at the edge of the clearing- almost as if he can't leave that position?
At the same time he knows that Jack is lying somewhere in the Bamboo forest. Strange.
Something else just occurred to me: the fact that the producers categorically stated in the Season 3 DVD extra material that Christian is dead does not necessarily imply that he is (still) dead the day of the crash. Perhaps the island did revive him, only for him to die at some later stage (by the end of Season 3). Maybe he's Rousseau's secret lover LOL!

scoutpost said...

Darn it!! I haven't been able to be on over the weekend and now only have time to pop in. Watched the mobisode- holy cow! Hope to read everything tonight sometime.
Interesting (and maybe already said) that this kind of parallels what Walt said to Locke when he was going to kill himself in the Dharma grave- That "he had work to do" , and now Christian has said that about Jack, too.

maven said...

The best was saved for last!

All of your comments are great. If this is indeed Smokey as Christian, why indeed does Christian mention "my son" to Vincent. Yemi denied being Eko's brother. Why does Christian stay in one place, and send Vincent? Maybe he doesn't want to shock Jack.

Remember when Christian was talking to Goth Claire in the mall, telling her he had medications that could put her mother in a death-like state. There was speculation at that time that Christian did the same thing to him and he wasn't really dead! LOL Maybe it's not so funny now! Perhaps he had to get Jack on Flight 815 and this was a way to do it.

Also, the "he's got work to do" is very reminiscent of Walt to John. Or if Smokey is taking on Jack's thoughts of his father, he could be referring to the fact that Jack needs to get up and "fix" all the survivors...to get the people the island needs or wants.

I still don't get how Vincent (and we) can see Christian and be petted by him without Jack there.

Boy, they've got us talking. Sam who?

memphish said...

So here's a question after watching the mobisode and the S3 finale. Why didn't the Island intervene directly with Jack again? Seems like now might be a good time for Christian to walk out of the jungle and say to Jack don't do it. Can it only commune closely with one person at a time?

Also after re-watching TTLG I still don't understand why Ben doesn't tell Jack more about the nature of the Island and the nature of who he thinks Naomi's people are to prevent him from making the phone call. At least in Ben's dealings with Jack, it almost feels like Ben is going through the motions he's seen in a Desmond-like flash knowing that there's nothing he can do but take these steps he's already foreseen.

I also noticed that Charlie didn't accept his death in the first instance so that Claire could be rescued. He tells Desmond to ready the scuba tanks while he goes to enter the Good Vibrations code. He asks first if Desmond had any flashes. I'm not sure if he was looking for a changed flash or no changed flash. He enters the code and heads to the door to hook up with Desmond when he's distracted by the incoming call button. He goes back and takes the call with Penny, and it's not until after he sees Mikhail at the window that he shuts Desmond out, though he still could have left at that point. But for Penny's call, Charlie presumably would have lived.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I think Charlie may have thought Desmond's vision had changed somewhat and since Desmond hadn't had any more flashes, that maybe he had cheated death again.
He hadn't actually "flipped" a switch though until he pushed the button to talk to Penny.
As far as Ben goes. I think is a man of faith. He feels he has the gift to be able talk people into or out of things. And when this doesn't work he's at a loss to why it didn't work and what he should do next. He seem to think people should trust and believe in him blindly. And they probably had in the past. He may also think that Jack needs to take that leap of faith.

maven said...

We're seeing Smokey appearing as Christian telling that Jack has work to do, and also as Walt telling John that he has work to do. It seems that we've got two different outlooks and philosophies on the island: Man of Science/Man of Faith. So why would Smokey/the Island want these two men -who have butted heads repeatedly - "saved" and urged on to fullfil their destinies?

maven said...

Memphish said: "Also after re-watching TTLG I still don't understand why Ben doesn't tell Jack more about the nature of the Island and the nature of who he thinks Naomi's people are to prevent him from making the phone call."

One would think that you'd use every argument up your sleeve if what Jack is about to do will doom everyone. It's one thing that is frustrating about the show: characters very rarely divulge the whole story. At this moment, you'd think Ben would get a little more specific, wouldn't you?

memphish said...

But shouldn't we assume that Jack's destiny is not on Island. After all Shephard isn't even on Jacob's list. And Ben seemed to view him as expendable once he got his surgery. He had a week or more to convince Jack that the Island was a special place worth preserving and that Jack should want to stay, but he didn't seem to even try.

The end of TTLG leaves me so heart-broken, but given the info. and treatment our LOSTies have gotten from the Others and even from Locke leaves me convinced I would make the call too. As I watched Locke threatening to shoot Jack, I'm thinking, there's only 6 bullets and 40 of us. We will make that call, and there's no reason, not even the freighter people being "bad" that would stop me. After all, weren't you Ben, willing to have me killed just 12 hours earlier.

maven said...

In re-watching the mobisode I noticed two things that stood out:
1. Christian does not move from his spot. He doesn't even take a step.
2. Jack wakes up on his own, as soon as Christian says "he has work to do". Vincent isn't anywhere near him.

Lost 2010 said...

You know, maybe Smokey can only use the same form for so long - there's only so much after-life left in the bodies so to speak. Maybe he's used Christian up by the season finale. Still, a ghostly trio of Shannon, Ana, and Eko would have definitely gotten my attention, had I been Jack.

oodles said...

Maven,
good point about Jack waking up on his own, as soon as Christian says "he has work to do".
Perhaps Christian is neither alive nor has smokey taken his form but this is simply Jack's subconscience speaking, the Hippocratic Oath so engrained in him making him wake up so he can go and fix people. While he is still lying semi-conscious he is hearing Vincent walk and sniff around him and he 'builds' him into his semi-waking dream.

Ange said...

maven said...2. Jack wakes up on his own, as soon as Christian says "he has work to do". Vincent isn't anywhere near him.

That's what made me say what I said in my earlier comment about Jack. My first impression was that he was dreaming and hearing Christian in his head, like you would hear a noise in a dream only to have it turn out to be your alarm going off.

maven said...

Ange: That would make sense to most people in a movie or a book. But this is LOST! Please, please, please...don't make this all a dream! LOL

maven said...

Why doesn't Christian himself go to Jack and make sure he awakens if he "has work to do"? He lets Jack "see" him later that day (or the next).

If Jack has "work to do" would that include helping his half-sister, Claire? Maybe that's what Christian wants him to do.

Ellen said...

Just checkin' in- hi everyone!
whew! lotsa catchin' up to do ....BBL!
xxoo

jess4ua said...

Considering the state that Locke was in when Walt told him he had "work to do" makes me wonder if the island, or whatever isn't talking to them in their subconscious.

jess4ua said...

And Goodness, was this mentioned? How the heck would vincent know who Christian is, let alone who his son is.

Ange said...

...or what a bamboo forest is for that matter!

Carol Dunstan said...

ok, I tried posting before but blogger wouldn't cooperate... now I gotta remember what I said! Something about how Jack may have physically woken up before Vincent got there but Vincent helped him snap out of his dazed and really come to so he could get to work helping those on the beach.

Vincent is special right, so of course he knows who Jack is and what a bamboo forest is! LOL... seriously, maybe the words were for our benefit, Christian/Smoke really communicated with Vincent using telepathy. Retrievers of Truth!

maven said...

Another thing: When Jack looks up through the bamboo, none of the branches seem broken. If he fell from the sky, wouldn't some of them be broken?

Carol, you're right. There sure is something about Vincent! I don't think any of our dogs would know to go directly to Jack (whom he never met)in the bamboo forest. LOL

4 more minutes and it's back to Find815...

Ange said...

I hope before the update tonight everyone stops over to Speaker's Space and sees the goodies he has for us!

Patch said...

Is everyone finding this really difficult or it is just me?

Ange said...

I CAN NOT DO THIS

Ellen said...

yep-difficult.

maven said...

I don't get it. :(

maven said...

I don't understand it! What are we supposed to do? LOL

takes a village said...

Which one is the Fwd. Key?
I'm just going around in circles.

Aimless22 said...

Gaaaaaaahhhh!!!

maven said...

These are the worst directions. Glad it's not only me!

maven said...

My pulsating dot just around the outer circle. I've lined it up with the coordinate's circle. But nothing happens. Explain please!

Patch said...

Ack, I'm about ready to give up!

memphish said...

I officially hate this game. I'm only rated for visual sailing.

Patch said...

You think you're on the right track and then another bit of reef pops up out of nowhere!

memphish said...

Maven you have to use your arrow keys to navigate through the reef and then end up on the target. It's a bear (or other b word.)

Ange said...

Maven you are the middle dot. The blinking one is the one you need to get to. Use the Left and Right arrow keys to get there but don't bang things. This sucks@&%$#&^T*O^&(*HVF

maven said...

The only thing that moves is the dot on the outer circle. Is that right? Does the dot in the center move (which is supposed to be the ship)? The outer circle dot just stays on that circle.

takes a village said...

ange is that the new password?

maven said...

The l and r arrow keys on my keyboard, right? Nothing seems to work on the screen.

Ange said...

Maven: <-- and --> keys and you move them and it kinds makes everything circle around the stable dot in the center which is the ship. the outer dot is not moving, it's you spinning around. I know I am making no sense but I'm trying :S

Patch said...

Maven, you have to navigate the middle dot, (that's us) using the left and right arrows on your keyboard around the green bits and try not to hit them, until you get our dot to the co-ordinates dot on the outer screen. Does that make sense? :)

Patch said...

*lol* takes a village!

maven said...

Thanks for trying to explain things, gang! I am using the left and right arrows on my keyboard. The outer circle dot goes up or down on the circle and I can slow it down. I've gotten that outer circle dot to the coordinates one. Is the center dot supposed to move? Mine doesn't. I don't know if I'm explaining this right, either! LOL

memphish said...

Anyone have the hack for this darn thing?

Aimless22 said...

Man, just when I think I'm almost there, it turns out to be a dead end!!!

maven said...

I think I'm finally gonna end up with a red square on my progress report! I just do not get this!

jess4ua said...

I made it through, and have the video...working on getting it posted

Lost 2010 said...

Ugh, does anyone have an overall chart of this fishbiscuit. I keep running into a dead end.

maven said...

Yea, for Jess!

Sayid'sgirl said...

maven
Ignore the dot on the outside for steering the ship watch the dot in the middle and keep it in the dark spaces.
And then do what patch says try to match up with the coordinate dot on the outside.
I haven't been able to do it yet either. But I'm having a blast trying. I usually have my son do these hard activities for me but he' sick. I'm on my own.

Patch said...

Congrats Jess! :)

Lost 2010 said...

How do you detect those dead ends before you're in them? Is there a way to slow down?

maven said...

I'm giving up.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Go! Jess!

Carol Dunstan said...

man, I finally got it! After eating lunch and all sorts of things to ease my tension. That was harder than mastermind!

I won't comment on the resulting video just yet but I just KNEW this would happen (didn't know in what way, but I knew it)

Lost 2010 said...

This thing is making me dizzy. Are there any hints on the general direction I should be navigating - I keep getting in little inlet like things and am too far in to turn around before I realize it's another of the inlets.

Aimless22 said...

I could do with a map...to tell me which way to go, then I wouldn't keep getting stuck in the dead ends!!

Patch said...

Good idea Carol. I'm going to have lunch and try again after.

Lost 2010 said...

Have you noticed that we start out in a dead end - so Ockham must not really want us to succeed. :)

takes a village said...

Navigate The Reef Night? I don't do Navigate The Reef Night.
I have to get up for work at 3:30,
To be continued.
Great navigating to those who got it.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well I give up for now. I'll try again later. Or maybe tomorrow.
Later Guys! Good Luck to those still trying.

Ange said...

If anyone who got through has a strategy that they think would be useful to guiding others through PLEASE e-mail it so I can add it to the front page! I'm almost ready for a clean slate for you gang.

Carol Dunstan said...

ok, some hints... once you get to where there seems to be a few ways you can go go left. But not hairpin... that's teh way I went first and it's a dead end... but by going down there you do get to see a bit of where you need to go. Shall I try again and get screen caps?

something else... the Sunda Trench is really deep isn't it? So why are we having to navigate a reef?

Carol Dunstan said...

by the way, there are two activities this chapter. Woot!

Ange said...

NEW POST gang...and e-mail with strategies if you go em!

Lost 2010 said...

My son has navigated it through to where we actually see the dot starting to get closer, but we get to the last little neck that you need to get through and crash every time. Of course, I can't get through any of the narrow spots so without him I'm hopeless.

Lost 2010 said...

Well, low and behold, I've finally done it. My son went to bed and I followed the path he laid out for me and I finally got it. My encouragement to you is that if I finally managed it, I'm sure you can too.